Audio vs drum racks

[pogul]

In pretty much every video I watch of someone producing electronic music in Live, they drag and drop (single shot drum) samples directly into audio tracks rather than using drum racks. I think I understand the advantages of this — it's very quick and easy, however it removes a lot of advantages of ye olde MIDI sampling — want to change the kick later? then you'll have to redo the entire arrangement; want to do snare roll? forget just using piano roll + velocities.

My first point is a little moot as you can use "manage sample file" to swap it to a different sample — but it's a little clunky and I ran into a problem where I in fact wanted to keep the old kick and have a new one playing the same pattern (on a new track), so I duplicated the track, then swapped the sample on the new track (to layer the kick) and found that both tracks were now playing the new kick. This sort of stuff is dead easy in drum racks (or using MIDI in general).

I'd love to hear some tips on working directly with audio clips, particularly for drums as for many things (e.g. slicing up vocals) it seems like the natural choice.

[jlgrimes]

In pretty much every video I watch of someone producing electronic music in Live, they drag and drop (single shot drum) samples directly into audio tracks rather than using drum racks. I think I understand the advantages of this — it's very quick and easy, however it removes a lot of advantages of ye olde MIDI sampling — want to change the kick later? then you'll have to redo the entire arrangement; want to do snare roll? forget just using piano roll + velocities.

My first point is a little moot as you can use "manage sample file" to swap it to a different sample — but it's a little clunky and I ran into a problem where I in fact wanted to keep the old kick and have a new one playing the same pattern (on a new track), so I duplicated the track, then swapped the sample on the new track (to layer the kick) and found that both tracks were now playing the new kick. This sort of stuff is dead easy in drum racks (or using MIDI in general).

I'd love to hear some tips on working directly with audio clips, particularly for drums as for many things (e.g. slicing up vocals) it seems like the natural choice.

i think you have more control with drum racks (in most cases).

Playing in parts how a drummer would. At the same time you can step sequence easily, Mre tools to tweak groove, change sounds etc.


Certain things though working with audio can be easier though like reversing kicks and such.

But I think the ultimate workflow is doing drums in midi, then at mixtime converting to audio and doing the audio centric editing then. Takes longer this way though.

To be honest, I haven't tried doing drums in audio so I cant comment the best.

[mholloway]

Some people like me are MIDI people, who like to perform hands-on with controllers and keys, and then see the performance mapped out in a piano roll for editing.

Some people are audio people, who don't perform hands-on much per se, and prefer to see audio waveforms laid out on the screen, and move them around as needed to create their beats.

Just different approaches. And there are certainly many who find interesting combinations of both approaches. In any given session, I'll use any number of both approaches, depending on the type of content or type of performance.

There's no answer to your question other than personal workflow. Your background as a musician vs. programmer or designer, etc, might play a large part in which approach feels more "right" to you.

-M

[pogul]

Thanks for your replies - both interesting and useful to me. I wonder if anyone that has a preference for working in the audio clip realm could comment on how they handle my example problem of changing an existing (e.g. kick) sample for a different one. Do you just redo the kick? Do you use the sample file management option I mentioned above? Something else?

Thanks

[Tarekith]

I just drag in new drums if I need to swap, though I spend a lot of time choosing my samples so I don't have to do that too!

[Shift Gorden]

I think it's kinda like mixing/mastering with an audio file versus the raw live set - once you rendered to audio you're more committed so swapping things out is much more of a pain!

Like the guys said here, there's no right or wrong - bother have obvious advantages and disadvantages. I use both. In some tracks I like to get a little disjointed with my beats - I find audio excellent for really messing things up and getting some really neat effects. I like using the clip envelopes to throw the sound around a bit.

That being said, I tend to use drum racks most of the time, but sometimes I'll bounce to audio just so I can play around with it. Drum racks fit my work style a little better...and I'm often hot swapping sounds.

[jlgrimes]

Thanks for your replies - both interesting and useful to me. I wonder if anyone that has a preference for working in the audio clip realm could comment on how they handle my example problem of changing an existing (e.g. kick) sample for a different one. Do you just redo the kick? Do you use the sample file management option I mentioned above? Something else?

Thanks

There are VSTs that are designed to swap drums. That said with using a combination of warping/slicing (to drum racks), you probably can replace drums without going to a 3rd party VST.

[jlgrimes]

Thanks for your replies - both interesting and useful to me. I wonder if anyone that has a preference for working in the audio clip realm could comment on how they handle my example problem of changing an existing (e.g. kick) sample for a different one. Do you just redo the kick? Do you use the sample file management option I mentioned above? Something else?

Thanks

There are VSTs that are designed to swap drums. That said with using a combination of warping/slicing (to drum racks), you probably can replace drums without going to a 3rd party VST.

Audio/midi might even be an easier method.