Find logic combinations of chords...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
NoSonic822
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:06 am

I think you could take both approaches in teaching someone. Scales then intervals...or the opposite. But to me, teaching intervals first is definitely backwards and incorrect. Because were tlking about someone asking how chords work on an Ableton forum. We aren't designing a formal classical music theory training syllabus. 8O :twisted: I just know the way i learned which I learned the circle of 5ths first....and then I kind of went backwards learning what scales were then modes etc......and then i just kind naturally just knew what intervals were.....but it was more like an overall deeper thing....that the note names and scale names and mode names were all just meaningless...and that it was all just interval relationships.

i'm not talking about knowing that C to C# is a minor 2nd...and that C to D is a major 2nd

i'm talking about a real physical aural understanding of it...that takes a long time to develop...it doesn tmatter which you teach first, because to a beginner its all just gibberish

but in a practical sense, on this ableton forum...if someone asks me how to understand chords i will not tell them to learn intervals....that is just over complicating it. and is completely useless advice. they musst learn scales first....because that is what is practical and helpful to them.....they aren't training to become an outdated classical music instructor...they are trying to make a dubstep song

TenSquare
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Location: Montpellier, France
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by TenSquare » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:19 am

Wakeon wrote:Hey everybody!!
I'm a little bit desperate today. Indeed, I try to find chords which are good between them, a combination of chords but I don't know how to do to chords that do well together. Do you have some tips, or some rules to help me in that situation :)?
Thanks a lot!!
Hello Wakeon,

Read this book very carefully, take your time, have fun with it and don't forget to practice with the exercices provided. It's not that complicated.

Personnaly I've already read it 3 times, and it's always a pleasure to read it again back from the beginning. I've bought the paper book, its author should really be rewarded for it! :wink:

All the best from France.

Guillaume

stringtapper
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by stringtapper » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:36 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:it does though....i'm not talking about it in a literal way, but in a deeper philosphical way....you begin to see that all of music is just intervals....you can call them major or minor or diminshed etc....but those are just names and labels.
Well I'm talking about actual musical intervals. Not some philosophical idea.

It's clear that everything you know about music theory has come from the internet, which has no guarantee of quality control, so I'm going to give you a pass here. But there are a couple of things that should be addressed.
Inversoundzzz wrote:I just know the way i learned which I learned the circle of 5ths first....and then I kind of went backwards learning what scales were then modes etc......and then i just kind naturally just knew what intervals were.....
What exactly do you think the "5ths" in the Circle of 5ths stands for? :lol:

Hint: it's an interval.

So you didn't just "naturally" know what intervals were afterwards. You were learning about intervals when you studied the Circle of 5ths, you just didn't realize it. One of the biggest strengths of Circle of 5ths as a pedagogical tool is that it shows interval relationships between keys and chords.

Inversoundzzz wrote:i'm not talking about knowing that C to C# is a minor 2nd...and that C to D is a major 2nd

i'm talking about a real physical aural understanding of it...that takes a long time to develop...
Again, this also isn't some deeper aspect of learning music theory. This is what we call ear training, and we teach it concurrently with the written theory in university music programs. Being able to aurally identify musical concepts is just as fundamental as recognizing them intellectually. Identifying intervals by ear is pretty much Step 1 in the college aural skills and sight singing courses I teach, and those courses run concurrently with the written theory courses. Students learn it from the beginning.

Inversoundzzz wrote:but in a practical sense, on this ableton forum...if someone asks me how to understand chords i will not tell them to learn intervals....that is just over complicating it. and is completely useless advice. they musst learn scales first....because that is what is practical and helpful to them.....
Sorry, but what you're saying here makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Understanding intervals is "useless advice" when it comes to understanding chords?

That's news to me. And to the entire world of music theory instruction, btw.

How does one even understand how a chord is constructed without understanding what major and minor 3rds are? How could one understand the difference between a major triad and a minor triad if they don't even understand the difference between a major 3rd and a minor 3rd?

They can't.

It sounds to me like you learned in a certain sequence from a few websites and now you can't see any other way to do it. I also have to question whether you really understand intervals yourself if you would go so far as to say something like "intervals are useless to understanding chords." I don't mean to be harsh, but that's just non-sensical.

Anyway, you've gone back and forth between conceding the point and then turning around and saying learning intervals is "incorrect" so I'm not even sure what your position is at this point.
Unsound Designer

NoSonic822
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:03 pm

tldr

all of the info i posted int his thread validates what i'm saying..and i also politely included some info that could possibly justify what you are saying...and shlomo sand.....

and it is posted for the people interested in learning some basic theory. it's not posted in response to you .

sorry to burst your bubble. :twisted:

Image

stringtapper
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Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by stringtapper » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:21 pm

Inversoundzzz wrote:tldr
That's your first problem right there. Incomplete inquiry = incomplete understanding.

Inversoundzzz wrote:all of the info i posted int his thread validates what i'm saying..
No amount of web links are going to validate your assertion that understanding intervals is "useless" in the process of understanding chords.
Unsound Designer

NoSonic822
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Find logic combinations of chords...

Post by NoSonic822 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:42 pm

stringtapper wrote:
Inversoundzzz wrote:tldr
That's your first problem right there. Incomplete inquiry = incomplete understanding.

Inversoundzzz wrote:all of the info i posted int his thread validates what i'm saying..
No amount of web links are going to validate your assertion that understanding intervals is "useless" in the process of understanding chords.
:twisted:

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