What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Mikhailmusic
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:32 am

What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by Mikhailmusic » Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:13 am

Hey Guys I've been a Maschine user for awhile now. I love the workflow in Maschine but I can't stand arrangement in Maschine. Integration with other daws is so much trouble. I'm using Ableton Live 9.6 w/ Push 2 and want to get the best workflow out of it. I want to be able to stay away from the keyboard and mouse when starting a track. I've been trying to create the perfect Ableton/Maschine template for awhile now but still haven't found the perfect setup.

1. I understand I can route the MIDI from Maschine so I can record MIDI into Ableton. The routing is always complicated, whenever I create a new group I always gotta make sure its routed correctly. Sometimes I'll make 8 groups in a short time and routing each group I create gets a bit tedious. Workflow Killer.

2. Going in and out of Maschine's keyboard mode requires different MIDI routing. I'm constantly going in and out of keyboard mode in different groups. This is a workflow killer for me. ALSO another pet peeve is that you can't utilize Komplete Kontrol keyboards Arps/Scales function when using Maschine as a plugin. In standalone mode I can access keyboard mode, turn on Maschine and KK's arp and trigger MIDI through KK and change Arp time signatures on the fly via Maschine Studio. Sadly I can't do that when Maschine is used as a plugin.

So the best workflow I've found for me so far is using Maschine standalone. Sync the MIDI clock so it goes to Ableton's tempo. Play the parts into Maschine and drag and drop audio into Ableton. Still not my favorite because when the session starts to get big, Maschine starts to lag behind of Ableton. With a big session I'll play Ableton's Metronome and Maschine's Metronome and they are no longer in sync.

What are some of the best workflows you guys came up with regarding Maschine and Ableton?


Thanks,
Mik

jlgrimes
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by jlgrimes » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:43 am

I mainly just use Maschine as a sound module and do all of my sequencing in Ableton. I use the Ableton Maschine controller template and Maschine makes a pretty good Ableton controller.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:25 pm

I just drag and drop audio. I’m sure NI will make some improvements for DAW workflow, but it sounds like they are really interested in mostly keeping it as a standalone groove box, possibly because better DAW integration is a tall order for full access to everything Maschine is capable of.

I saw a tut where it shows how to make a template in a DAW but the fatal flaw is when you change the group sounds it undoes all your routing and resets to default. At the very least you should be able to lock all the routing you made.

Tarekith
Posts: 17348
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
Contact:

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by Tarekith » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:47 pm

I drag and drop audio as well, since I primarily use Maschine standalone. Sometimes for my Maschine live sets I'll resample the plug in to capture the performance, but I've never found using Live to sequence Maschine to work for me.

mholloway
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by mholloway » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:28 pm

+1 on just dragging and dropping audio from Maschine to Live. I don't even use Maschine as a plugin in live, just in standalone. I absolutely hate having the maschine trasnport turned off.

TBH, there just isn't a good workflow for running the two in sync. I like to create sequences in Maschine, in standalone, that later get worked into an Ableton session. For real back - and - forth composition, nothing feels right, it's all a total pain in the ass routing-wise, screen wise, etc. which isn't exactly shocking: if you decide "I want to use two completely different sequencing programs to write one song!" then yeah, you're going to have some nightmare routing and confused sequencing going on. Why expect otherwise? People bitch and moan about lack of proper integration, but how could NI possibly make their hardware+software combo route seamlessly into every major DAW, with perfect workflow? It's just not that realistic.

Short version, I write some stuff in Maschine, drag and drop audio to Ableton, then continue exclusively in Ableton.

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Willyum
Posts: 1194
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 6:17 am
Location: Jamaica, Queens

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by Willyum » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:08 pm

It is shameful that NI haven't corrected their routing structure. Maschine is not a DAW, so they know that eventually most people will need to connect to a proper DAW. Maschine is great for getting the Idea down quickly, especially when some pads have 'keyboard' pitch playing... But it sucks when trying to layout a song, especially if you plan to do any detail work!

I absolutely hate the workflow of trying to use Maschine with any of my DAWs. Even when I have a good template setup, if you change the sounds in a group all the routing is lost and you have to start all over again.... Swapping a kit then requires me to change 3 settings per sound.... that's 48 settings I have to change to get the routing back. And thats only if I'm doing the midi per channel... to get the midi and audio per channel is an additional 32 settings for a total of 80 settings to change.

A lot of people wont take the time to integrate maschine deep enough into live to have to switch 80 settings... I have mine setup so that every pad from maschine has it's own audio to separate tracks in Live so I can use whatever plugins... and separate midi channels per sound plus 1 drum rack with all 16 midi channels so that I can properly use session clips for full kit as well as pitched pads. I've spent Hours setting up multiple templates in Live to uses maschine... only to have it all undone by just changing a kit.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:14 pm

At minimum by default when you drop an instance of Maschine in a DAW notes should trigger pads, not scenes, and routing individual pads to their own track should be a single “multi out” click on Maschine and adding the tracks in your DAW. You know, like every other multi out drum plugin out there. At least do that for Group A. If you want to do more than Group A then, yeah, make it a big headache. I get that. Or just open another instance of Maschine. If this can already be setup in the default preferences I’ll happily STFU.

beshake126
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:49 am

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beshake126 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:35 pm

You shouldn't have to create group routing from Maschine into Ableton if you save it as a template. Set it up once and open the template when you're ready to work. That's it! Maschine is the heart of my set up and works perfectly for me. I have Maschine routed as audio tracks into Ableton. After I create my sketch ideas or full songs into Maschine in vsti mode. I then do a track out into Ableton. I've done this for years and find it to be far more useful than setting it up through midi or drag and drop. I can't be bothered with either of the latter. They interrupt my creative flow and have caused more problems than anything else. Hope that helps.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:13 pm

beshake126 wrote:You shouldn't have to create group routing from Maschine into Ableton if you save it as a template. Set it up once and open the template when you're ready to work. That's it! Maschine is the heart of my set up and works perfectly for me. I have Maschine routed as audio tracks into Ableton. After I create my sketch ideas or full songs into Maschine in vsti mode. I then do a track out into Ableton. I've done this for years and find it to be far more useful than setting it up through midi or drag and drop. I can't be bothered with either of the latter. They interrupt my creative flow and have caused more problems than anything else. Hope that helps.
But if you change the group preset doesn't it undo all the template routing and change it back to everything out through 1 stereo track on 1 MIDI channel?

beshake126
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:49 am

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beshake126 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:33 pm

Group preset in Ableton? Unfortunately, when dealing with Maschine routed as midi into Ableton, I have zero patience with that workflow and can't really guide you on that workflow. It's way too lengthy and complicated for me. However, routing Maschine sounds individually as audio tracks into Ableton is what I can help you with. You set up the routing in Maschine's output section on each sound. Then, open 15 audio tracks in Ableton, assuming the first track is already routed on the vst track itself. Save the Maschine Project as Maschine to Ableton track out or whatever you want to call it. Group the tracks in Ableton. Save the Ableton Project as the same name you give the Maschine Project. Then, whenever you open that Ableton project. Your settings are in place for you to work. No re-routing necessary. It's a one time set up.

If you're not willing to try the above workflow. I would recommend you check out Saint Joe's tutorials on how to route Maschine into Ableton using midi channels on YouTube. He has a few of them on there via the Maschine Tutorials channel.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:31 pm

beshake126 wrote:Group preset in Ableton? Unfortunately, when dealing with Maschine routed as midi into Ableton, I have zero patience with that workflow and can't really guide you on that workflow. It's way too lengthy and complicated for me. However, routing Maschine sounds individually as audio tracks into Ableton is what I can help you with. You set up the routing in Maschine's output section on each sound. Then, open 15 audio tracks in Ableton, assuming the first track is already routed on the vst track itself. Save the Maschine Project as Maschine to Ableton track out or whatever you want to call it. Group the tracks in Ableton. Save the Ableton Project as the same name you give the Maschine Project. Then, whenever you open that Ableton project. Your settings are in place for you to work. No re-routing necessary. It's a one time set up.

If you're not willing to try the above workflow. I would recommend you check out Saint Joe's tutorials on how to route Maschine into Ableton using midi channels on YouTube. He has a few of them on there via the Maschine Tutorials channel.

It’s been a while so I’ll have to give it another go. I don’t know if this has been fixed but at one point let’s say you load up Beefy Breaks Kit (or whatever) and in the Maschine group you get all the audio outputs from each pad routed to their own DAW track. But then you decide to use Sphinxter Echos Kit (or whatever) and as soon as you load that it undoes all the audio routing and makes them all go back to the main stereo out. Is that no longer the case?

beshake126
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:49 am

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beshake126 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:38 pm

I don't save the Maschine Template with a sound kit. I saved the template with no sounds, but track out routings so you can load kits accordingly and the settings have never been reset that way. Maybe that's a part of the issue you're experiencing. Also, what version of Maschine are you working on? Nothing should be reset when you save as and load sounds or kits accordingly.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:44 pm

My Maschine version is up to the latest update, but like I said, I haven’t tried it in a while and just resigned myself to drag and drop.

Does Live or any DAW have a feature where you can save the entire multi track setup and just drag the whole damn thing into any set as opposed to having to start with a set template that has Maschine in it?

beshake126
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:49 am

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beshake126 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:48 pm

Yup! After you save the template in Maschine and route the settings for audio. Group all of the tracks in Ableton. Then, drag the group to your user folder in the browser pane. Double click on it whenever you want to use it again in a project.

beats me
Posts: 23319
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Re: What's Your Workflow using Maschine and Ableton

Post by beats me » Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:54 pm

Sweet! :)

Post Reply