Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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sijaffer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 am

Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by sijaffer » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:01 pm

Hi,

I Have a PSR-S950 and enabled the internal transmit clock to control sync/start/stop of Ableton LIve sets. I dont see it sending clock signal when its stopped or on pause so Ableton is not setting the tempo to match the keyboard. This causes the Ableton samples to be off tempo when it starts and then gradually comes to sync. Really irritating when performance have short pauses or breaks in between. 
I hooked up another brand device and I see that it sends the signal on pause or when not in play, so when Ableton is set to EXT it is receiving the clock signal event when the arrangement has not started, thus allowing the tempo to match the external device.  
I have checked all settings on the PSR and without luck have not been able to find the setting that enables it to send tempo or clock signal when its paused or set to sync/stop state. my connections are below

PSR-S950 to Mac OS X El Camino via USB (installed the Mac OS X Yamaha drivers (Japan version))
PSR-S950 Midi set to All Parts Template, Internal clock, transmit On. 

Ableton Live connected to Presonus FireBox via firewire 800
Ableton Midi settings: - Digital Workstation Input Sync enabled - set to Midi Clock

On the other hand, this tempo sync problem happens with any device that I try to use Ableton as slave on the first bar, after the 1st bar, it gradually syncs the tempo and then I can pause and resume with out issues as long as there is continues clock signal send to Ableton.

Any help is appreciated. this happens with

Sameer Jaffer

ObtuseMoose
Posts: 137
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:51 am

Re: Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by ObtuseMoose » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:49 pm

Can you use Ableton as the master and the PSR as the slave?

Do you have something else that could work as the master clock to drive both Ableton and the PSR set as slaves (or external clock)? There are dedicated MIDI clock devices (e.g. the E-RM MIDIclock), or any reasonably capable drum machine would probably work. I'm currently using an old Alesis SR-16 drum machine as my MIDI clock source.

Regarding the problem of Ableton taking a bar to get the tempo right, you might consider adding a bar or two of silence at the beginning of your arrangement to give it time to sync.

Hope this helps.
--
Moose
"all the musical ability of a blocked nostril"

sijaffer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 am

Re: Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by sijaffer » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:22 pm

Thanks ObtuseMoose for your reply,

I have all my patterns and tempos already set in the PSR and there is a workflow that I am used to with the controls of the PSR, to change it would be really difficult. I use Ableton as an accompaniment to add additional percussions with the performance. I have another PC Laptop with Ableton 7 installed and it works just fine with the same setup!. Not sure what has changed from 7 to the current. I just upgraded and trying to move to Mac and seeing this problem. I am currently trying to install 9 on another PC and seeing if it behaves the same.

Cheers.
Sameer Jaffer

sijaffer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 am

Re: Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by sijaffer » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:22 am

Hi,

I tried something on a completely built PC.

Win 7 fresh install
Presonus FireBox Drivers
Steinberg UI12 Drivers
Ableton 7.014
Ableton 9.6x

Tried with 2 external devices (yamaha PSR-S950 or Korg EA-1) separately for external sync.
setup both versions of Ableton to sync EXT (NOT running both at the same time)

Started Ableton 9 and get 1-2 bar sync issue as explained earlier in this post.
Closed Ableton 9
Started Ableton 7 and it works fine. No tempo miss-match issue on start of the beats. Ableton Starts with the same tempo as the external devices

Tested it both with Presonus and the Steinberg sound interfaces separately!!

It seems something changed after 7 that causes the tempo mismatch on start when Ableton is Slave to external device. it would be great to have this feature back as it worked before. We updated to the new version and are thinking of going back to the older version.

Any help in this matter is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Sameer Jaffer

sijaffer
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:57 am

Re: Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by sijaffer » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:19 pm

Ok, so it seemed like no one was able to respond. Luckily I was able to get Ableton support to agree with my issue here is their response:

"Thank you for following up with Ableton Support.

I was able to discuss changes in regards to MIDI Sync and Live with my colleagues and you were certainly correct!

It looked like there were major changes made to Live as a clock slave in 8.2.5. These changes also came with a new options.txt meaning that that MIDI sync slave behavior can be modified in Live by adding a custom script.

Check out the article below for more information:

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article/sync-no-good/

Refer to this article for information on how to use and install Options.txt files:

https://www.ableton.com/en/help/arti...txt-file-live/

The default behavior most similar to the version of MIDI/Sync available in Live 7 would be version "n" so please try this in your Options.txt file upon creation."

let me know if anyone is having issues, it worked for me.

Cheers,

Sameer Jaffer

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Ableton as slave on midi clock tempo sync issue

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:23 am

sijaffer wrote:
The BPM in Live jumps around when Live is running as MIDI sync slave. What can I do to fix this?

Refer to this article for information on how to use and install Options.txt files:
Options.txt file for Live
That article is gold for anyone syncing Live! Thanks!

P.S. Fixed the Options.txt link D.S.
Make some music!

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