Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

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mholloway
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Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by mholloway » Tue May 31, 2016 4:35 pm

This is really bugging me, and has been for a while. Very specific scenario with audio files, wherein I want "WARP" to = ON so I get the Loop functionality, but I DON'T want the clip to actually get warped to session tempo. Probably best to explain in specific actions performed:

Let's say I want to drop an audio file into Live's session view...

-The file is recorded dialog, so it has no BPM

-I want the file to play TOTALLY NORMALLY, NO warping to bpm of session, etc.

-But I also want to LOOP the file... LOOP is greyed out / unusable if the file is UNWARPED, so:

-I click the Warp button, Loop becomes available, but now the dialog has weird timing because it's trying to match the session bpm

That's the basic issue. I want the controls that are available when WARP = ON, but I don't want the clip actually warped. It has no BPM so changing the BPM box doesn't help.

Now, there is actually a solution that works, but it's a bit of a drag (no pun intended) and a workflow killer: I drag the unwarped clip into arrangement, Right Click > Consolidate. Now the clip is Warped, plays correctly, and I can turn on loop and mess with start and end points etc; I have to drag it back over to session so I can use this new consolidated clip. Sure, this solves my problem, but..

...is there a way to achieve the same thing without having to consolidate the clip over in arrangement view every time? E.g. is there a way to turn Warp ON for a clip, thereby getting all the commands that go with Warping (such as Loop), but not actually have the contents get warped, but rather just playback the original timing of the file?

It seems like there should be a way to convince Live, so to speak, that a given audio clip's normal, unaltered playback state is wanted even with "Warp" still on. The BPM box is of no use in the case of non-loop / non-musical passages, and I'm specifically working with recorded samples of dialog....

thanks,
-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

[jur]
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by [jur] » Tue May 31, 2016 5:04 pm

Actually what you already do doesn't change the audio clip's tempo if warp is turned on and only the start point warp marker of the file is displayed.
If you change the global tempo, of course your clip's tempo will also change relatively. But as long as your global tempo doesn't change, dropping a 200 bpm clip into a 98bpm set will play a 200bpm loop in a 98bpm set.
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mholloway
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by mholloway » Tue May 31, 2016 5:39 pm

[jur] wrote:Actually what you already do doesn't change the audio clip's tempo if warp is turned on and only the start point warp marker of the file is displayed.
If you change the global tempo, of course your clip's tempo will also change relatively. But as long as your global tempo doesn't change, dropping a 200 bpm clip into a 98bpm set will play a 200bpm loop in a 98bpm set.

Well, for whatever reason, that isn't how it's happening for me. I'm dropping audio files of dialog into a session, and when I hit play, they sound all warped and weird, sped up in obvious ways, unless I turn off the Warp button... I'm not changing the global tempo at all.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
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garyboozy
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by garyboozy » Tue May 31, 2016 5:56 pm

rather than consolidating in arrange, right-click the first warp marker and select 'warp from here (straight)'

i just wish this was an auto-option you could set in prefs...

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by yur2die4 » Tue May 31, 2016 6:05 pm

If the warp mode is set to Beats, the Transients version of Beats can really mess up an audio clip. I don't know why Live defaults to that one. There are limited situations where it works ideally.

I would look at your marker. Make sure there is no other marker. Then highlight it and set its tempo to the same as the global tempo.

Try using Repitch mode. It'll only change the pitch based on how far the bpm is away from the global bpm. The other modes chop it up into tiny slices (although in theory, Beats at any straight interval like 1/8 or 1/16 should not sound chopped if the tempo of the marker is the same as the global tempo)

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by slatepipe » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:25 am

yur2die4 wrote:If the warp mode is set to Beats, the Transients version of Beats can really mess up an audio clip. I don't know why Live defaults to that one.
you can change that default warp mode in the preferences

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:19 pm

Yes, but when a person first installs Live, and if they've never used the program before, their first experiences with warp will be using Beats, Transient mode as the default. They won't know any better until the day that they learn about that part of the software. And in a lot of cases, beats transient mode can sound not the greatest.

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by mholloway » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:46 pm

yur2die4 wrote:Yes, but when a person first installs Live, and if they've never used the program before, their first experiences with warp will be using Beats, Transient mode as the default. They won't know any better until the day that they learn about that part of the software. And in a lot of cases, beats transient mode can sound not the greatest.
Every mode can sound "not the greatest." It all depends on the file type, of course. Beats is good as the default because the average, generic user is probably dragging in a rhythmic loop, which Beats is almost always great for. There's no need for Live to change the default mode. Furthemore, none of this pertains to my OP, which has nothing to do with which Warp mode is selected. But anyway.
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by garyboozy » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:00 pm

did you try my suggestion?

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:48 pm

mholloway wrote: It seems like there should be a way to convince Live, so to speak, that a given audio clip's normal, unaltered playback state is wanted even with "Warp" still on. The BPM box is of no use in the case of non-loop / non-musical passages, and I'm specifically working with recorded samples of dialog...
I proved for myself that you assume wrongly here. I did this test.
  • Added a 24bit AIFF file with dialog, which was automatically warped with Beats > Transients to 89bpm
  • Changed the clip tempo to the same as the project: 122bpm
  • Exported the full length of the sample undithered, unnormalized
  • Opened both audio files in Ocenaudio
  • Pasted the original audio file with inverse polarity into the audio file of the exported clip
The result was complete silence. If the beats warp had affected the clip at all it wouldn't cancel out completely.

This is what the manual says Live will do given the circumstances. I trust the manual.

Though this doesn't prove all material always will work equally well, this method shows how it's supposed to work and suggest it's likely to work for most material barring any bugs and special circumstances.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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mholloway
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by mholloway » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:25 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
mholloway wrote: It seems like there should be a way to convince Live, so to speak, that a given audio clip's normal, unaltered playback state is wanted even with "Warp" still on. The BPM box is of no use in the case of non-loop / non-musical passages, and I'm specifically working with recorded samples of dialog...
I proved for myself that you assume wrongly here. I did this test.
  • Added a 24bit AIFF file with dialog, which was automatically warped with Beats > Transients to 89bpm
  • Changed the clip tempo to the same as the project: 122bpm
  • Exported the full length of the sample undithered, unnormalized
  • Opened both clips in Ocenaudio
  • Pasted the original clip with inverse polarity into the exported clip
The result was complete silence. If the beats warp had affected the clip at all it wouldn't cancel out completely.

This is what the manual says Live will do given the circumstances. I trust the manual.

Though this doesn't prove all material always will work equally well, this method shows how it's supposed to work and suggest it's likely to work for most material barring any bugs and special circumstances.
I will try again after work today and see what results I get, thanks for testing.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

mholloway
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by mholloway » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:26 pm

garyboozy wrote:did you try my suggestion?
been away from my studio system, I will try this afternoon and post results here, thanks.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by borg » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:49 pm

Not sure if it matters, but did your audio file already have an .asd file?

I just dropped a dialog sample in a fresh project, turned on Warp, unchanged sound and looping. Then I changed tempo, which of course changed the audio (beats as warping mode), but when typing in the new project BPM in the clip view, audio is restored, and just needs the loop bracket to be set right.
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Re: Turning on "Warp" without actually warping audio file...how?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:52 am

mholloway, I forgot to mention that obviously Live should be able to just default to the original time of the file also when you warp.
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