Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

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Tekhed66
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Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by Tekhed66 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:24 am

Hi all

I am using a Scarlett 6i6 and I'm having trouble working out how to route the instruments in my band's setup correctly.


A bit of background:

Our bass player recently left so as a stopgap, I'm using a bass synth that is being controlled by a Live channel containing an External Instrument plugin playing a midi bass line. We also use Live as a backing "virtual band member" on some tracks to either play extra synth parts or additional drums/percussion. These extras are programmed directly in Live and don't rely on the External Instrument plugin (only the bass does).

We found that if we play the bass synth with an external instrument via Live and take the (volume) line out straight from the bass synth and into the bass amp, the bass synth and output from Live (Laptop/Live into the 6i6 and then out of the 6i6 to the mixer) is not in sync ... there's definitely latency at play.

We then found that if we plug the bass synth output back into the 6i6 and then out again in a separate 6i6 output, the hardware synth and laptop are both in sync... presumably because both inputs and outputs are affected by the same degree of latency ... I hope that makes sense so far.

What I want to do but cant work out is described in the attached diagram:

Image

As shown, the main output from Live (L & R) is line out 1 and 2. All midi drums/perc are send to ch.3 in Live and we physically plug that channel into its own strip on the mixer. What i want to do is take the line out of the bass synth, plug it into Line Input 3 and then send it to Line Output 4 so that we can then physically plug this output into the bass amp.

The setup would then be:
Line Output 1 & 2 = Live L & R
Line Output 3 = Live drums / perc
Line Output 4 = Bass synth

I can't for the life of me work out how to setup Mix Control ... I can either hear just the bass synth and nothing else, or I hear everything (outputs 1 to 4) all coming from the bass amp.

Can someone please tell me how to setup Live and/or Mix Control correctly?

thanks for your help!!!!!!!

yur2die4
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:09 am

How are your Live outputs set from within Live? Do the bass and drums go out individually to Just output 3 and Just output 4 as mono outs selected via the dropdowns?

Mystic38
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by Mystic38 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:53 am

to follow on from the above post.

you do not need to use mix control for this, you should be able to do all the routing directly in Live.

Tekhed66
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by Tekhed66 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:21 am

Hi again...

yur2die4: the drums are routed to mono output channel 3 via the dropdown menu... everything else is channel 1 and 2 via the dropdown menu.

Mystic38: I thought I might be able to bypass Mix Control but just couldn't work it out ... what i want to do is send the bass track midi information (using external instrument) to my external synth, then physically plug the external synth into line in 3, and then receive that signal out of line out 4 and plug it into my bass amp.

I just can't work out how to do it 9or even IF Live is able to do it...) ... Mix Control isn't the most use friendly of interfaces ... I'm sure it means well but it falls far short.

Any specific info on how to set up the Live bass track ins/outs etc???

thanks!!

chrk
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by chrk » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:03 pm

Tekhed66 wrote:the drums are routed to mono output channel 3 via the dropdown menu... everything else is channel 1 and 2 via the dropdown menu.
Mystic38 wrote:what i want to do is send the bass track midi information (using external instrument) to my external synth, then physically plug the external synth into line in 3, and then receive that signal out of line out 4 and plug it into my bass amp.
That sounds OK to me as far as Live's internal routing goes.

What happens, when you do exactly that? - Are you still hearing outs 3 and 4 through the mains?

Screenshot your Mix Control for us, please. I know Mix Control from the Saffire series and I have a few ideas, but they're easier to explain when I know what's currently going on in your rig.

Tekhed66
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by Tekhed66 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:18 pm

chrk wrote:
Tekhed66 wrote:the drums are routed to mono output channel 3 via the dropdown menu... everything else is channel 1 and 2 via the dropdown menu.
Mystic38 wrote:what i want to do is send the bass track midi information (using external instrument) to my external synth, then physically plug the external synth into line in 3, and then receive that signal out of line out 4 and plug it into my bass amp.
That sounds OK to me as far as Live's internal routing goes.

What happens, when you do exactly that? - Are you still hearing outs 3 and 4 through the mains?

Screenshot your Mix Control for us, please. I know Mix Control from the Saffire series and I have a few ideas, but they're easier to explain when I know what's currently going on in your rig.

Hi Chrk

Thanks for that ... I'll grab a screenshot and re-post ... unfortunately the gear is locked away in our rehearsal room until next week when we get back together so there'll be a small delay before I post again. Any hints regarding Mix Control would be really great.

cheers.

chrk
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by chrk » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:07 pm

Tekhed66 wrote:unfortunately the gear is locked away in our rehearsal room until next week when we get back together so there'll be a small delay before I post again.
OK, I'll try and answer promptly. Let's hope you won't have to wait yet another week until you can try anything I may come up with.

In the meantime grab the Scarlett manual from https://focusrite.de/downloads?product= ... +first+gen.

You'll need to understand the concept of mixtabs and how to assign an actual output to the output channel of a mixtab.

fishmonkey
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:18 pm

you should not need to jump through all those routing hoops.

when you have the bass synth MIDI triggered and its output going straight to the amp, does it sound late relative to the audio coming from Live?

if so, have you tried tweaking the "Hardware Latency" value in the External Instrument device?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

chrk
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by chrk » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:01 pm

fishmonkey wrote:you should not need to jump through all those routing hoops.
I haven't reset my Mix Control in years, but AFAIR in factory default all input faders are up and the output channels off all mixtabs are set to play to all physical outputs, so basically everthing is playing everywhere. [That's why I'm asking for the screenshot.]

The knack is to set up a mix (i.e mixtab) for every intended ouptut, assign those outputs and pull down the faders of the inputs (which may be physical or DAW) you don't want in a particular mix.
fishmonkey wrote:when you have the bass synth MIDI triggered and its output going straight to the amp, does it sound late relative to the audio coming from Live?

if so, have you tried tweaking the "Hardware Latency" value in the External Instrument device?
Good point when it's going the way through Live at all. That will of course be added to the overall latency. I have a concept with Mix Control in the back of my mind, where he can compare that with the direct monitoring of the input inside a mix and see which behaves best in terms of tightness.

fishmonkey
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:07 pm

if the only issue is latency between the bass synth and the audio coming from Live, then the most likely issue is that Live does not know how long the the bass synth is taking to produce its sound once it receives the MIDI commands. if that is the case, the latency issue should be fixable using the hardware latency setting, shouldn't it?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

chrk
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Re: Can someone pls help routing my 6i6 using Mix Control?

Post by chrk » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:28 pm

fishmonkey wrote:if the only issue is latency between the bass synth and the audio coming from Live
Dammit, I've just reread the WHOLE original post, I had totally concentrated on the bit after the image. :oops:


So, yes, trying to figure out the hardware latency is the first thing to try.

quikava04
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Post by quikava04 » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:34 pm

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