Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
c33
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by c33 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:11 am

Fanu wrote:Getting the vibe that people are complaining a bit. Understandable, in a way.

However, Ableton are proud of their flagship controller that tightly integrates with the software, and imho it's understandable that they want to work on it.
Push 2 is dope as heck; anyone who's used it knows it expands your workflow (laptop land isn't always that great).
If you're not going to use it, that's fine, but you probably shouldn't be upset that Push and things relating to it are being worked on to a great extent at the moment.
+1 And I would also contend that they are still very much focused on the software as a whole (there is no Push without it) and have made lots of improvements and tweaks to 9 since it was released + added fantastic features like Link.

Ableton is obviously in the business of increasing profits for their products, but I still feel like they put their users (and the music they create) at the forefront of everything they do and genuinely want all of their products to be the best that they can be.

kenporter
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by kenporter » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:30 am

Angstrom wrote:
Nope it's not any of that either.

I deleted a bunch of ASD files, and turned off that preference, and even then - dragging an un-analysed sample into Simpler with warp off, loop off .... the warp and loop get activated (on a completely raw sample)

NOTE : the sample has to be longer than a drum. I'm talking about pad and string samples here. Exactly the kind of thing you dont want warped beatmode.
Hey Angstrom,

when you select Loop/Warp Short Samples to Unwarped One Shot in preferences, then Simpler won't turn on warp by default.

Ken

33tetragammon
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by 33tetragammon » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:53 am

kenporter wrote:
when you select Loop/Warp Short Samples to Unwarped One Shot in preferences, then Simpler won't turn on warp by default.

Ken
thanks for that tip, but i should mention it only works when i also turn off "auto-warp long samples" underneath.
the loop is still turned off when swapping samples and all loop settings are reset to default.

pencilrocket
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:29 pm

Fanu wrote:Getting the vibe that people are complaining a bit. Understandable, in a way.

However, Ableton are proud of their flagship controller that tightly integrates with the software, and imho it's understandable that they want to work on it.
Push 2 is dope as heck; anyone who's used it knows it expands your workflow (laptop land isn't always that great).
If you're not going to use it, that's fine, but you probably shouldn't be upset that Push and things relating to it are being worked on to a great extent at the moment.
Cool story bro
Image

[erm]
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by [erm] » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:32 pm

Let's keep it civil please, there's no need to take little digs at each other or rant about the situation when we can have a constructive conversation about it.

I've passed on everyone's comments so the devs know people are still concerned about this. I think given the updates lately, Ableton has shown they are listening to what their users want. Some requests just take longer to implement sometimes.
Ableton Forum Administrator

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by mekanism1200 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:33 am

Stromkraft wrote:
mekanism1200 wrote:I still dont get all the hooplah for the Push. I owned one for a bout 6 months and realized it just slowed me down and I would have to completely customize my library to get access to everything. Its kind of ironic that software like Ableton which is suppose to foster different workflows would make a controller that forces you into a certain way of doing things.
What are you talking about? I don't feel forced in any way, shape or form. I just use my Push 1 with Sampler most of the time, but occasionally also Simpler, and for some reason I have no issues building kits with samples in neither of these.

This is what I get as default when loading a sample with Push:

Image

Which is, as expected, my template, saved to "On Device View". That's hardly a game stopper.

I don't feel Push is any worse than any other controller with presets in Live, so I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, things could be much, much better, especially with mapping. But what other controllers give you better support for reasonable workflows? Native Instruments? Who? What?
I just use a basic keyboard now. I hardly ever use clips and work a lot in audio so yeah, the Push doesnt fit my workflow. Im glad you like it but I just didnt see the point having a controller that costs as much as my DAW sitting and collecting dust. I dont have any disposable income these days so I sold it. I spent so much time making custom instruments, changing my library, moving shit around I just got fed up with it. I much prefer a linear workflow, with the option of clips. To each his own I suppose!

ash1
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by ash1 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:26 am

i disagree the push 2 makes the workflow in ableton a breeze you must have been using it wrong
and with the changes in 9.7 even more so
the push 2 is the best controller on the market worth every penny

Angstrom
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:50 am

ash1 wrote:i disagree the push 2 makes the workflow in ableton a breeze you must have been using it wrong
and with the changes in 9.7 even more so
the push 2 is the best controller on the market worth every penny
that would depend on the individual though. I'm sure that for perhaps 80% of modern music makers the Push fits their music making style and methodology perfectly. Slicing up loops and browsing factory sounds. That's fine. However - no tool will fit every person. It isn't possible. To draw a parallel - Modular synths are absolutely amazing and flexible, but you can't do everything on them. Ableton have wisely targeted the biggest chunk of the music tech consuming market.. Push will be perfect for making beats based music from triphop to dubstep to trance, for browsing their factory sounds and packs, or for competing with an MPC. That's what it's for.

Now that's just fine, great for Ableton and a good business move to sell these particular shovels to teh gold rush of bedroom producers making "mad beats". But I don't work that way. I spend my time making synth patches in layered racks, and creating effects racks. The recent updates have made that worse. There is a feeling (if we don't make "beats from loops") that patch making and beat programming is not the focus of the application. There is no middle ground between "simple and immediate beatmaking" and "tortuous IDE wrangling". That middle ground is what I enjoy and it's shrinking.

For us non-Push people, The sort of music we make just doesn't fit into that "beats from loops" methodology - so the more the application skews towards one particular type of music making it means we are just left scratching our heads. If a change is actively detrimental to what I do then I feel it is perfectly fine to mention that.
I feel it's valid if I express frustration at that as a direction for the software I use.

Angstrom
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:16 pm

kenporter wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
Nope it's not any of that either.

I deleted a bunch of ASD files, and turned off that preference, and even then - dragging an un-analysed sample into Simpler with warp off, loop off .... the warp and loop get activated (on a completely raw sample)

NOTE : the sample has to be longer than a drum. I'm talking about pad and string samples here. Exactly the kind of thing you dont want warped beatmode.
Hey Angstrom,

when you select Loop/Warp Short Samples to Unwarped One Shot in preferences, then Simpler won't turn on warp by default.

Ken
Thanks Ken, that does turn off warping in Simpler - but there's a bit of a problem that it turns off warping and loop on imported audio clips too - which means no automation envelopes or loops in clips, etc. Obviously I can re-activate warping in each clip after I've dragged some audio in, but hopefully everyone can see it's not really a "fix" to the issue.

The issue being: importing a sample into Simpler doesn't respect the context it is being imported into. It should import and take the settings of either a default Simpler, or of the current Simpler instance.

It would seem to me that there should be a differentiation between the settings and the handling of audio in clips and of samples in Simpler.
I think the audio import should respect context rather than previous usage, or some broad-range monolithic preference which covers very-dissimilar application elements and usages.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:41 pm

mekanism1200 wrote: I much prefer a linear workflow, with the option of clips.
Actually you do hit the weak spot of the push right there and I appreciate you point it out. :oops:
That the Push doesn't support the clips in Arrangement equally to Session is not a wise strategy of Ableton I think. I don't see a good reason for this either. I can live with it though, partly because I use PXT Live with my Push 1.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:53 pm

Angstrom wrote:
I think the audio import should respect context rather than previous usage, or some broad-range monolithic preference which covers very-dissimilar application elements and usages.
I naturally agree with this.
Make some music!

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by mekanism1200 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:42 pm

ash1 wrote:i disagree the push 2 makes the workflow in ableton a breeze you must have been using it wrong
and with the changes in 9.7 even more so
the push 2 is the best controller on the market worth every penny
If I were to start a track just using the Push, creating clips using mostly stock library devices, and then rearranging those clips and then eventually recording that into the arrangement you would be correct, its made easy with the Push. However, I dont work that way. I tend to record myself messing around with a particular VST or instrument for like 30 minutes, saving the audio for later use then resampling myself later, chopping and micro editing a lot of audio in arrangement. You just cant use the Push this way without it getting in your way and it slows you down for this kind of workflow. I think using clips is fun in the session view but for production I tend to just get down to arrangement right away, saving me the hassle of messing with clips.

Shift Gorden
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by Shift Gorden » Tue Jul 26, 2016 9:51 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
mekanism1200 wrote: I much prefer a linear workflow, with the option of clips.
Actually you do hit the weak spot of the push right there and I appreciate you point it out. :oops:
That the Push doesn't support the clips in Arrangement equally to Session is not a wise strategy of Ableton I think. I don't see a good reason for this either. I can live with it though, partly because I use PXT Live with my Push 1.
Totally with you on that one. I love my Push but I really want it to work equally in session and clip.

ash1
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by ash1 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:08 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FRgsmMtAQ

push 2 the best hardware controller

can it do anything = YES :lol:

mekanism1200
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Re: Live 9.7-another update for Simpler,but what about Sampler?

Post by mekanism1200 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:43 am

Now that I think of it I would like a different version of the Push, one that negates the file browesr section altogether and acts more like a keyboard but in the Push layout, like a launchpad with Push pads. Of course this would need to cost a lot less as well! :P

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