What is the best method or to create a drum beat / groove?

[LarZ2]

Last week, I asked about creating a synth sound and came up with Serum as a great software package to adjust sounds.

Now..... for a good drum sound; I can use Impulse and load it with drum sounds, make a 4X4 kick, add a snare and some ride cymbals, but the facts are, I'm not a great drummer. How can I load, or import good drum MIDI clips that are ready to run. I have not found the right method in Ableton to bring in a drum beat that I like, and have the ability to add or make changes. If I load a sample, then there is no adjustment.
Is there a method in Ableton to load a complete MIDI drum track that I can work with, OR, what is the best Plugin that has drum beats programmed.
It just takes too long for me to create a beat. Right now I would prefer to buy it or import.

[login]

There are a lot of options for this. There are sites that sell midi loops and some drum libraries como with loops to, for example addictive drums and ezdrummer. Drum achines such as microtonic and Tremor also have big pattern libraries.

[hacktheplanet]

Do it the hard way. Get a cheap pad controller like a LPD-8 and practice.
Took me a few months of practicing before I could lay down a consistent beat, but it is sooooo much faster than programming stuff in by hand.

[LarZ2]

I'm trying out Addictive Drums. There are a lot of options to choose, and I have found a few good beats. Still learning how it works.

[jlgrimes]

Last week, I asked about creating a synth sound and came up with Serum as a great software package to adjust sounds.

Now..... for a good drum sound; I can use Impulse and load it with drum sounds, make a 4X4 kick, add a snare and some ride cymbals, but the facts are, I'm not a great drummer. How can I load, or import good drum MIDI clips that are ready to run. I have not found the right method in Ableton to bring in a drum beat that I like, and have the ability to add or make changes. If I load a sample, then there is no adjustment.
Is there a method in Ableton to load a complete MIDI drum track that I can work with, OR, what is the best Plugin that has drum beats programmed.
It just takes too long for me to create a beat. Right now I would prefer to buy it or import.

Too many ways. A lot depends on your workflow and your genre to an extent. That said there is really no right/wrong way.

From playing in with no quantize, from playing in with quantize, piano roll editing, piano roll writing, groove quantize, using drum loops, extracting grooves, copying/pasting wave samples in arrangement, or a combination of methods.

[LarZ2]

"Too Many Ways". OK, I see, there are a lot of ways to make a drum track depending on what you are trying to accomplish, right? The ones I make are usually not that good.
Probably the best thing for me right now is to buy some grooves so I will have a starting point, and learn from that. I spend too much time working on beats that don't work out. Sounds like I am not really doing anything wrong, I'm just not doing it right, in building a good sound. Maybe I need to spend more time to really learn how to make a good beat. I'm usually in a hurry, just want to slam it down and move on.

[Richie Witch]

You might also consider picking up a book or two on real drum technique or drum machine programming. I found this one to be pretty good, and taught me a lot about how a drummer thinks:

https://www.amazon.com/Drum-Programming ... K6QYQP9XF9

It's nice that this book is more modern than most I've seen and uses a piano roll setup similar to Live's.

[jlgrimes]

"Too Many Ways". OK, I see, there are a lot of ways to make a drum track depending on what you are trying to accomplish, right? The ones I make are usually not that good.
Probably the best thing for me right now is to buy some grooves so I will have a starting point, and learn from that. I spend too much time working on beats that don't work out. Sounds like I am not really doing anything wrong, I'm just not doing it right, in building a good sound. Maybe I need to spend more time to really learn how to make a good beat. I'm usually in a hurry, just want to slam it down and move on.

Best advice is to study songs you like.

Do those songs use live drums?
Do those songs use drum programming?
Do those songs use sampled loops?

Timing
Is the timing loose/stiff?
Are there a lot of ghost notes?
Does pattern seem swingy or straight?

Does drums do a lot of fillins or variations or does the pattern pretty much keep going?
Is there a lot of drops?
Do time signature change?


Certain styles might dictate certain workflows.

[adam_mc]

As someone has already said: do it the hard way.
I presume you're making house/edm style tracks as you mention the 4 to the floor etc. and everyone goes through the same learning curve, especially with dance music where the quality of your drums central to the feeling of your track.
I strongly feel that the more pre-made components you use the less creative and imaginative you will end up being. Then you'll recognise the fact you do not really have much of "you" in your music and have to try to unpick all the things you've been doing due to short cuts.
That's not to say I make everything myself. I regularly use presets on synth as a starting point or samples in my drums but, over the last year or two I've tried to make everything my version of whatever it is in making. Whether that's by editing the sample, tweaking a preset or adding effects and resampling; truly, making a sound or pattern or track thoroughly yours will add huge longevity to your efforts and bring about much more learning and enjoyment and in the end achievement.

I don't want to disrespect those who build tracks using many ready made components but it certainly doesn't work for me. I feel it is like inviting people around for dinner and serving a meal where everything has come out of a tin and simply been reheated and served in a plate. It may taste fabulous but can you really take that much credit. Surely a greater feeling of achievement would come from knowing your ingredients, quantities, combinations, cooking techniques etc. At least what you serve, good or bad, is your own.
Bottom line. Do it the hard way from the off.

Good luck.

[sana48]

I like drums..

[LarZ2]

As someone has already said: do it the hard way.
I presume you're making house/edm style tracks as you mention the 4 to the floor etc. and everyone goes through the same learning curve, especially with dance music where the quality of your drums central to the feeling of your track.
I strongly feel that the more pre-made components you use the less creative and imaginative you will end up being. Then you'll recognise the fact you do not really have much of "you" in your music and have to try to unpick all the things you've been doing due to short cuts.
That's not to say I make everything myself. I regularly use presets on synth as a starting point or samples in my drums but, over the last year or two I've tried to make everything my version of whatever it is in making. Whether that's by editing the sample, tweaking a preset or adding effects and resampling; truly, making a sound or pattern or track thoroughly yours will add huge longevity to your efforts and bring about much more learning and enjoyment and in the end achievement.

Good luck.

OK, One thing I am beginning to see is that a drum track is not easy. Knowing that, I am trying to take more time to make a drum tracks that are interesting, and have a beat that is appealing. Thanks for your input Adam, that made sense as a theory of what I am trying to accomplish. It gives me new perspective, and maybe a little more patience to keep trying until I make something that is acceptable.

[Womble Dung]

i'e been really enjoying using a great little virtual rack system called caustic 3 (free for windows) which is not expensive for android and mac, and can work really well even if all instrument racks are filled up and each has the full two effects added to each.

it has a drum machine called beatobox. and within beatbox you have the choice of many many different drum kits.
in fact i often load up to 5 drum kits simultaneously to generate an almost whole piece before i even add any melody from synths etc.

next comes the hassley bit, but it is worth it.

as caustic cant directly plug-in to abelton, what i do (i know this will sound like a dreary drudge to some folk, but the results are good)
is once i have the drum kits loaded up, got the grooves running, and levels all set within caustic, i then export it as a whole piece first.
then export each drum kit track by going thru each one individually, clicking solo (to silence the other kits) and export it.

i then drop each individual drum track into a channel in abelton, and WOOOOOOSH!!!! it's a joy to play around with.

other than than, i tend to use roland Aira tr-8 either analogue in, or midi.


anyway, in short, i find using pre-made loops can be a big of a let down, and get more satisfaction from "growing" my own.

also, sometimes the WORST thing to do is have a set idea in mind, and try to contrive a drum beat to it, as it may usually, not come out at all like you imagined. (some people are wired to do this well, but most of us are not).

so for example, i find "step sequencers" or basic pattern sequencing tends to lend itself to creating good grooves.

foe example on a 16 step sequence, simply go along the sequencer steps 1, 5, 9, and 13, with your kick noise.
maybe next lay on the hats (keep it REALLY simple) for eg on 3, 7 11, and 15.

generally (tho once you get the feel this can wildy change) snare on 4, 8, 12, and 16.

toms? well, generally tune the toms to actually sound like notes.
i generally use my toms to generate what sounds like a simple bassline. so the tom notes can actually go anywhere.

good thing to do is to, once you have kick, and hats laid on, is to not worry too much about where the toms go, and just lay them on, and twiddle the tuning knob till you like it.
you're more likely to get something newer that way too.


and another idea is to not worry too much about technicalities initially and simply ENJOY it.
if it aint fun, then it aint worth doing as it may not be fun to listen to.


when using more than one kit, then i tend to set up the first kit (usually a tr8's 909, or hastics 909 style kit) with straight 4 to the floor.
(doof doof doof doof),
then set up a second kit (for eg in caustic my 2nd kit tends to be "dubstep" kit as it's kicks and booms tend to cut thru the 909 noises beauituflly.
what this can help with is giving a feel to the straight 4/4 by accenting with deeper hits, or such.

then i maybe add a latin kit for congas as i like the "note" feel they add, and as i love dancing, they help give a good feel in that sense, and so on.
(incidentally, for bongo and conga parts a good phrase to remember is "mama papa coco popa", or "mama cocopop, mama cocopop"
sound mad? TRY IT as you'll see.

but all i am doing is writing a tune i have never heard before. and tend to not write a single synth note till i can hear a rtune growing out of the drum beats, otherwise for my style it just sounds too contrived when i have a tune in my head and try to squeeze drums into it, as that rarely works for me. (though it is fine if i am working with guitars and bass guitar to work that way)

i am not too used to common synths that can work as VST's in abelton, so cant suggest ones which would work well by dropping your own custom drum hits into.
but it is an idea.

[LarZ2]

and another idea is to not worry too much about technicalities initially and simply ENJOY it.
if it aint fun, then it aint worth doing as it may not be fun to listen to.

It has to be fun,,, This is really true... I'm going to try some new drum programs. Maybe I can find one that is more inspiring. Now that I have made the switch to digital music, I thought I was done buying synths and drum machines but I have to buy instrument programs. The good part is you can try the demo before you buy. That is way better than buying an instrument, and selling it on Ebay two months later.

[buzby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAC5x1wgL0

[crystalmsc]

The best method for me so far:
- Step Sequencing: Live 9 + Push 2, Volca (Bass, Beats, Keys)
- Realtime: Push 2 and a Midi Keyboard
- Hand Drumming: Wavedrums
- Doing Beatbox and process the result with various effects such as iZotope Vocal Synth, Movement, etc.