Complex Pro in Simpler

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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UCAudio
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Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by UCAudio » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:18 am

I just built a new blazing fast PC and expected to be able to use the Complex Pro warp mode in Simpler (Live 9) to play chords with samples with no issues. However, a four note chord is still giving me crackles etc... even with the buffer size set to 1024 samples. When this happens, Ableton is barely even using any CPU when I check in task manager... although the processing meter in Ableton is spiking pretty bad.

It's barely phasing my CPU at all so I would have expected it to not be crackling like this. Does anyone have any tips for getting Complex Pro warp mode working in Simpler?

yur2die4
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:24 am

I'm surprised that Simpler does not have a 'Ram' button. I looked in the manual for CPU saving strategies, it does not offer much.

I would assume that your problem is not due to some kind of clipping.

Stromkraft
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:56 am

UCAudio wrote:I just built a new blazing fast PC and expected to be able to use the Complex Pro warp mode in Simpler (Live 9) to play chords with samples with no issues. However, a four note chord is still giving me crackles etc... even with the buffer size set to 1024 samples. When this happens, Ableton is barely even using any CPU when I check in task manager... although the processing meter in Ableton is spiking pretty bad.

It's barely phasing my CPU at all so I would have expected it to not be crackling like this. Does anyone have any tips for getting Complex Pro warp mode working in Simpler?
You don't even mention the audio interface. What is it? 4 notes with Complex pro hits about 20% on my Quadcore i7 in Live 9.7b5 at 256 sample buffer.
Make some music!

Shift Gorden
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Shift Gorden » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:48 pm

yur2die4 wrote:I'm surprised that Simpler does not have a 'Ram' button. I looked in the manual for CPU saving strategies, it does not offer much.

I would assume that your problem is not due to some kind of clipping.
Well, I was actually wondering that - when playing the chord, are the levels in the red? Could be as simple as turning the volume down in Simpler.

UCAudio
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by UCAudio » Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:03 pm

I have a RME Fireface 400. Windows 7. Brand new quad core Intel I7, 64Gb fast ram, and fast SSD. It's not clipping, it's crackling a little like audio buffer issues and lives processing meter spokes up to like 60%. I'm thinking maybe it's because it can only utilize one core of the cpu and has no future to load to ram in simpler? Still, the actual cup isn't impacted much by it.

yur2die4
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:03 pm

Okay. I tried it out. It is definitely from CPU usage. If I turn off retrigger and crank up the release it kills my computer. If I use a different warp mode the computer has no problem. This is a consequence of using Complex Pro for busier material. It is probably also why they've been hesitant to release a sampling instrument with stretch.

Stromkraft
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:06 pm

UCAudio wrote:I have a RME Fireface 400. Windows 7. Brand new quad core Intel I7, 64Gb fast ram, and fast SSD. It's not clipping, it's crackling a little like audio buffer issues and lives processing meter spokes up to like 60%. I'm thinking maybe it's because it can only utilize one core of the cpu and has no future to load to ram in simpler? Still, the actual cup isn't impacted much by it.
How do you know it isn't loop point mismatch? Have you tried working with the loop or use longer perfect waveforms?

Personally I don't see how RAM is involved here. Why wouldn't Live keep it in RAM if there is memory to use?
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Stromkraft
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:19 pm

yur2die4 wrote:If I turn off retrigger and crank up the release it kills my computer. If I use a different warp mode the computer has no problem. This is a consequence of using Complex Pro for busier material. It is probably also why they've been hesitant to release a sampling instrument with stretch.
Busier? When I do this with 8 voices I get 40% engine load with other processes running in the background. 50% if I turn off retrigger and set maximum release.

There are some obvious workarounds to this problem.
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yur2die4
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:30 pm

I had Tyrelln6 running to simulate having at least one additional medium-load vst. (Light non-polyphonic pattern)

I made sure to press and release notes that were of a sustained complex pro clip that was doubled in length via warping. When I'm pressing and releasing but constantly holding 3-4 notes at a time with 8 note polyphony set and a moderate release it starts choking.

After I turned off pitch, filter, LFO and tried it again and it still had surprise crackles periodically. More than zero crackles due to CPU is not something you want from physically 'playing' a sampling instrument. Actually, I did initially try it with width up to 3% to first see how it reacted with a little stress. That is the one thing I forgot to set back to zero.

Either way, you get to 4+ notes in complex pro and you're heading rapidly into the danger zone.

ian_halsall
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by ian_halsall » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:16 pm

what can I say except "Kontakt"?

Willyum
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Willyum » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:27 pm

I think it has something to do with your pc's configuration... My PC is almost 8 years old (self built), my audio unit has been discontinued for about 2 years and Focusrite isn't making any more drivers for it (a cheap $250 Safire pro 24 dsp), It's running with ADAT active to another cheap Tascam audio unit... @128 (input 3ms output 4.6ms... 7.6ms total), Windows 10 (which I find to be less stable than 7 with my old drivers.... I'm playing 8 notes on complex pro with a 56% load and no crackles. Now to be fair and honest, when I have a song fully decked out with fx and all... I do get lots of crackles at 128 and usually have to bump it up to 256 to get right.

Bottom line, my system is old and cheap... I use Tune-Up utilities to keep my system clean (http://www.tune-up.com/products/tuneup- ... /features/) (I run tune-up turbo mode with a heavy song), I disable my virus protection. and I'm good to go (Live latest beta and Live current official).... So there has to be something configured wrong, or background high-resource, file scanner or something, cause you having a nice computer like you have and a bad-ass RME interface should be having absolutely no troubles at all!

Stromkraft
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Re: Complex Pro in Simpler

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:07 am

Willyum wrote:I think it has something to do with your pc's configuration... My PC is almost 8 years old (self built), my audio unit has been discontinued for about 2 years and Focusrite isn't making any more drivers for it (a cheap $250 Safire pro 24 dsp), It's running with ADAT active to another cheap Tascam audio unit... @128 (input 3ms output 4.6ms... 7.6ms total), Windows 10 (which I find to be less stable than 7 with my old drivers.... I'm playing 8 notes on complex pro with a 56% load and no crackles. Now to be fair and honest, when I have a song fully decked out with fx and all... I do get lots of crackles at 128 and usually have to bump it up to 256 to get right.
Maybe this is the lackmus test of Live music computers. Component Selection, Setup and Optimization are all very important. Its certainly possible, that other software in other DAWs, like Kontakt in Bitwig or whatever, is better adapted to a wider range of hardware. Live may be crackling too often in general, but not always on every machine when taxed like this.
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