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** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (SOLVED)**

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:29 pm
by GIADIS
I'm using Ableton as my live keyboard rig, in session view as shown in the image below:
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My controller, ARTURIA KEYLAB 88, is set this way:
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I've set the envelop attack of the clips as chain selector in order to switch from an instrument rack to another instantly.
So far, so good.
The BIG PROBLEM is:
how can i have my real time physical controllers set just to the instrument i'm playing (JUST THAT)??
Whenever i move a slider, or a knob, set to a specific parameters on one instruments, i simultaneously move all the other paramaters in every other instrument that are set to same slider,
NO MATTER WHICH RACK IS SELECTED (blue hand). :evil:
NO MATTER WHICH CHAIN IS SELECTED. :evil:

Is there a way to solve this? :x :x

PLEEEAASE..

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:56 pm
by jestermgee
The "blue hand" is only for macro control...

Basically if you hard-map your controls to actual controls in a device they will control that device regardless of where you are in the project.

What you need to do to have track-selected control is wrap your instrument inside a rack (select all the devices in your track you wish then right click and select "instrument rack") and this will create 8 macro knobs which you can assign to controls in your track. You will, however, be limited to only 8 controls for auto-mapping per track.

If you then have additional controls you can hard-map these to have auto-map + hard-mapped controls.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:56 am
by yur2die4
Would you be able to show your midi mapping screen? (Everything overlayed with blue squares)

If you are midi mapping everything at once, all the devices mapped to that one control will simultaneously be affected.

Live's method for resolving this is the blue hand which sort of controls whichever device is currently in focus. There are a lot of ways to accomplish that. (Some ideas, you can create Two blue-hand control scripts, one the default and the other an additional one for faders. The default one could be locked to the outer Rack, the extra one would 'jump to' each instrument you control. The best way to select instruments might be to use keys or pads instead of a knob or faded. The trick would be to map a 'key range' to the instrument selector and then also map each of the individual keys to the individual instrument title bars so as to select them. This would automatically give your 'jump to' control of the selected instrument)

A last option which might be a bit more on the strange side is midi assigning from within a vst. In your particular case I do not think it would help filter midi going into unwanted devices.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:44 am
by GIADIS
jestermgee wrote:The "blue hand" is only for macro control...

Basically if you hard-map your controls to actual controls in a device they will control that device regardless of where you are in the project.

What you need to do to have track-selected control is wrap your instrument inside a rack (select all the devices in your track you wish then right click and select "instrument rack") and this will create 8 macro knobs which you can assign to controls in your track. You will, however, be limited to only 8 controls for auto-mapping per track.

If you then have additional controls you can hard-map these to have auto-map + hard-mapped controls.
Ok, i got your point.
I know i can have more than 8 controls PER TRACK, as i can hard-map directly to single devices inside a rack,
BUT
in this case my keyboard rig is all on ONE TRACK, which is red track n.1 (KEYBOARDS): then i have one big instrument rack with other SUB instrument racks independent from each other (individual songs).
Is there a way i can set the 8 Macro Controls indipendently for each rack, even within the same TRACK? Or i stuck to EIGHT??
That's the key of it all.
It would be nice, at least, to be able to have your instrument rack receiving midi controls from different midi controllers on different MIDI CHANNELS at the same time. But i don't think that's possible....
This way, if anything, i would save little on CPU and RAM.
Even if i don't hear it (thanks to chain selector), whenever i move a controller many parameters of other instruments are changing at the same time, and that's not really good.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:35 am
by peeddrroo
I can't think of a solution for your problem using only knobs.
However, depending on what you want to achieve, there might be a workaround.
If you want your instruments to load in a certain state, you can always create some automation for your macros. That's what I woumld do.
This way you can tweak whatever you want, and load the next song with the correct instrument and the correct settings.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:41 am
by garyboozy
you'll need to set up your instrument rack differently, so that each chain in the main instrument rack holds its own instrument rack with discreet macros.
then you can map some buttons on your controller to act as chain/instrument selectors.
map these buttons to each child instrument rack's header (to left of the blue hand, shown in pic below).

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Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:47 am
by GIADIS
peeddrroo wrote:I can't think of a solution for your problem using only knobs.
However, depending on what you want to achieve, there might be a workaround.
If you want your instruments to load in a certain state, you can always create some automation for your macros. That's what I woumld do.
This way you can tweak whatever you want, and load the next song with the correct instrument and the correct settings.
For now, i have found a simple workaround using CLIP envelops to set device ON or OFF.
E.G: i use one track for songs 1 to 5, and then another track for songs 6-10 and so on.
At song n.6 when i launch the clip the device on track 1 is set to DEVICE OFF (songs 1-5) and the other one is set to DEVICE ON (songs 6-10).
It cuts off the sound, of course, but it's not a big issue as most likely i will do it in between songs, and not while playing.
It's not the best solution, i guess, but if anything i won't have single physical controllers on my KEYLAB having too many functions at the same time, which can be a bit confusing if not frustrating.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:21 pm
by peeddrroo
so what is your issue exactly?
do you want to save on CPU or do you want your instruments to sound the same regardless of the settings on your Keylab when you start a new song ?
it's not very clear.
it's an interesting issue though.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:32 pm
by GIADIS
garyboozy wrote:you'll need to set up your instrument rack differently, so that each chain in the main instrument rack holds its own instrument rack with discreet macros.
then you can map some buttons on your controller to act as chain/instrument selectors.
map these buttons to each child instrument rack's header (to left of the blue hand, shown in pic below).

Image
I think it's what i'm already doing.
Let's take an example with a simple empty project. That's my situation:

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I have an instrument rack, which contains other instrument racks each with its own sound inside, set on two different chains.
I have one knob of my keyboard set as chain selector.
Slider one is set to edit the "PROTRUSION" on both instruments rack 1 & 2, but it doesn't make any difference if i've selected chain one or chain two. They both move, at the same time.
??

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Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 pm
by garyboozy
looks like you're physically mapping the Protrusion param (there's a cc number shown on it), rather than letting the control script take control of the current instrument's 8 macros automatically, which is what i assumed you were trying to do. if you hard-map a control, it won't switch to the currently selected device (as already mentioned in this thread).

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:45 pm
by GIADIS
peeddrroo wrote:so what is your issue exactly?
do you want to save on CPU or do you want your instruments to sound the same regardless of the settings on your Keylab when you start a new song ?
it's not very clear.
it's an interesting issue though.

I wish i could have real time controllers to reset anytime i select a new chain, so that for example my 8 sliders control everytime different parameters in every song.
ABLETON should allow me to do that.
Guess what happens when you have 20 or 30 songs (instrument racks) within the same track....

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:55 pm
by GIADIS
garyboozy wrote:looks like you're physically mapping the Protrusion param (there's a cc number shown on it), rather than letting the control script take control of the current instrument's 8 macros automatically, which is what i assumed you were trying to do. if you hard-map a control, it won't switch to the currently selected device (as already mentioned in this thread).
Ok, got it.
But even macros have to be mapped to a physical controller, right?
I don't see any difference....

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:59 pm
by garyboozy
try macro-mapping (green map mode) 8 of the controls from your chosen synth to its instrument rack's 8 macros.
you should then be able to control these 8 macros automatically, as you have the KeyLab set up as a control surface.

the only thing you need to midi-map (blue map mode) is the buttons to select the desired synth.
so for synth one, use one button mapped to the instrument rack's header (see pic) and also to the
chain selector (min0/max0 for synth one, min1/maz1 for synth 2, etc).
this way is much easier than using a knob to choose each synth

Image

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:33 pm
by yur2die4
Try this:

Open an empty set. Load in and of Live's instrument rack instruments.

On your controller, try to see if your controller automatically controls that instrument rack Without midi mapping. It might be knobs, it might be faders.

Next.

Make a grouped instrument rack with several of Live's instrument racks dragged in.

Again, without midi mapping anything you should be able to control parameters on whichever of those racks (within the rack) that you choose, and only that device (for controlling the knobs. The devices will still receive note data simultaneously).

If it doesn't work as described, there might be other problems (maybe your default sets already have midi mapping, or your controller isn't quite set up to take advantage of the 'control surface' features).

If it all works as expected, then try going back through this thread and seeing if you get any ideas. If it does not work as described, you might have other problems to tackle first.

Re: ** ABLETON AS LIVE KEYBOARD RIG (HELP!!) **

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:05 pm
by GIADIS
garyboozy wrote:try macro-mapping (green map mode) 8 of the controls from your chosen synth to its instrument rack's 8 macros.
you should then be able to control these 8 macros automatically, as you have the KeyLab set up as a control surface.

the only thing you need to midi-map (blue map mode) is the buttons to select the desired synth.
so for synth one, use one button mapped to the instrument rack's header (see pic) and also to the
chain selector (min0/max0 for synth one, min1/maz1 for synth 2, etc).
this way is much easier than using a knob to choose each synth

Image
well...Ok, at least i've learnt a new thing. :)
I can map the header of the instrument rack (blue hand), which shows me the macros of the instrument i'm controlling in real time.
It's clearer, and quicker.
Another question:
how can i set one PAD to select the device and the chain number at the same time?
In the MIDI MAPPING screen (img below) CHAIN SELECTOR can be set by only one CC input.

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