Fishman Triple Play won't recognize program change in Live

[Reinaldo123]

I'm running Live Suite 9 in 64-bit on Windows 10 64-bit. I am using a Fishman Triple Play and it tracks all the synths I have in Ableton excellently. When I run the Stand-alone Fishman TP app (64-bit), I can use a Softstep controller in host mode using LoopBe to send midi program changes which the Triple Play software responds to. When I run the TP plug-in within Ableton Live, it doesn't respond to midi program changes from the Softstep or any midi device I have connected that sends program changes such as my Akai MPK49. I'm able to send program changes to other vst plug-ins so it's something with how the Triple Play plug-in is acting within Ableton Live. Would anyone have an idea what the problem might be and how to rectify it? Thanks.

[yur2die4]

Try creating an empty midi channel with all ins for midi and arm it.

Set it so that it is routing its output to the channel that has the triple play inside it.

The next dropdown, set it so that it is not only routed to that channel, but directly to the triple play vst.

[Reinaldo123]

Thanks for the quick feedback but I tried it and it doesn't work. I did it with the extra midi channel having Monitor In as well as Auto and did the same with the TriplePlay channel. I armed the extra midi channel and tried it arming the TriplePlay channel instead. No luck.

[EasyWorkflow]

I have two Godin guitars with build in FTP pickup and love the controller. I also have a KM soft step 2 but have not used it with triple play. My question is I know that Fishman came out with a foot pedal for Triple play to change patches when playing live, but it only has 3 bottoms, Bank, up & down. Seems like a very difficult way to remember where you patches are located. What unit do you you using to chage patches when playing? Were you using the Soft Step2 to change patches in stand alone mode?

I NEVER used the stand alone mode because many of my VSTs have to be used inside Ableton like Omniphere 2 & Trillian which kill with the FTP. I am still trying to figure the workflow to play a live solo gig. Trying to make things less complicated but technology keeps getting the best of me.

Fishman support is also excellent so if you get stuck, give them a call. I wish I was more helpful but I am still a newbie at all of this and trying to learn what gear is needed to make everything flow.

Thanks

[Reinaldo123]

I also prefer to use TriplePlay while in Ableton. I used the standalone mode just to test whether FTP worked with midi program change with the Softstep and it does in standalone mode. I'm also able to issue program changes using an Akai MPK49 controller while FTP is in standalone mode. Neither the Softstep or Akai program changes work with the FTP plugin while in Ableton Live. I see the midi data within Ableton showing up in the FTP track in Ableton but the FTP is not responding. Program changes from the Softstep or Akai work within Ableton with other VSTs. It's just the FTP that I'm not able to get to respond. The FTP VST does respond to up and down program changes from the D-controller on the FTP device but, as you mentioned, doing up & down program changes seems like a less than ideal way to get around. In addition, I want to keep my hands playing and would rather issue patch changes from a foot controller than having to move from playing position to the FTP D-controller. I already put a ticket into Fishman but have yet to hear from them. I may give them a call on Monday.

[EasyWorkflow]

I also prefer to use TriplePlay while in Ableton. I used the standalone mode just to test whether FTP worked with midi program change with the Softstep and it does in standalone mode. I'm also able to issue program changes using an Akai MPK49 controller while FTP is in standalone mode. Neither the Softstep or Akai program changes work with the FTP plugin while in Ableton Live. I see the midi data within Ableton showing up in the FTP track in Ableton but the FTP is not responding. Program changes from the Softstep or Akai work within Ableton with other VSTs. It's just the FTP that I'm not able to get to respond. The FTP VST does respond to up and down program changes from the D-controller on the FTP device but, as you mentioned, doing up & down program changes seems like a less than ideal way to get around. In addition, I want to keep my hands playing and would rather issue patch changes from a foot controller than having to move from playing position to the FTP D-controller. I already put a ticket into Fishman but have yet to hear from them. I may give them a call on Monday.

Thanks for giving me a bunch of very useful knowledge. Please PM me or post here if you speak to Fishman because we are in the exact same scenario. The one thing which is still not clear is whether the soft step 2 can be programmed to launch patches from different VSTs and how that would be setup inside of Ableton for a live gig.. And ideas how that works? Thanks

[Reinaldo123]

I got a hold of a Triple Play expert at Fishman today and he told me exactly what the problem is. It's a (by his own omission) poorly documented (actually non-documented) aspect of working with the TP VST within Ableton Live or any other host DAW for that matter. TP requires that the Softstep In be set in its own preferences within the plug-in or stand-alone app but if Ableton's midi preferences include the Softstep In as well then a conflict occurs and Ableton takes precedence and the TP VST will not see program change or any midi from the Softstep.

I tested this by disabling the Softstep in Ableton's preferences and keeping it enabled in the TP VST and, sure enough, TP then saw the program change. So, I'm relieved that the problem was straightforward and there is a solution. Unfortunately, this means that within a recording session I can't use my Softstep to send program changes to the TP channel in Ableton Live as well as control clip and looping functions within Ableton Live. I'd have to choose to use TP control or Ableton control over the other but I can't have both simultaneously.

My new scheme was to use the D-control on the Triple Play pickup to do up/down program changes and dedicate the Softstep to Ableton functions and other soft synths and effects but I hate doing program changes that way. I either get another foot controller for the Fishman or try something like LoopMIDI which can give me a couple of virtual midi ins. I then assign one midi port to the Fishman and assign another to Ableton Live. I would have to reprogram the Softstep to send on the Fishman's virtual midi port when in program change and send to the other port when controlling Ableton Live functions. A bit of work but easily doable. Fingers crossed.

[EasyWorkflow]

I got a hold of a Triple Play expert at Fishman today and he told me exactly what the problem is. It's a (by his own omission) poorly documented (actually non-documented) aspect of working with the TP VST within Ableton Live or any other host DAW for that matter. TP requires that the Softstep In be set in its own preferences within the plug-in or stand-alone app but if Ableton's midi preferences include the Softstep In as well then a conflict occurs and Ableton takes precedence and the TP VST will not see program change or any midi from the Softstep.

I tested this by disabling the Softstep in Ableton's preferences and keeping it enabled in the TP VST and, sure enough, TP then saw the program change. So, I'm relieved that the problem was straightforward and there is a solution. Unfortunately, this means that within a recording session I can't use my Softstep to send program changes to the TP channel in Ableton Live as well as control clip and looping functions within Ableton Live. I'd have to choose to use TP control or Ableton control over the other but I can't have both simultaneously.

My new scheme was to use the D-control on the Triple Play pickup to do up/down program changes and dedicate the Softstep to Ableton functions and other soft synths and effects but I hate doing program changes that way. I either get another foot controller for the Fishman or try something like LoopMIDI which can give me a couple of virtual midi ins. I then assign one midi port to the Fishman and assign another to Ableton Live. I would have to reprogram the Softstep to send on the Fishman's virtual midi port when in program change and send to the other port when controlling Ableton Live functions. A bit of work but easily doable. Fingers crossed.

Reinaldo.....thanks for the VERY useful info. Please send me a link to anything you post on SoundCloud.

[EasyWorkflow]

I I either get another foot controller for the Fishman or try something like LoopMIDI which can give me a couple of virtual midi ins. I then assign one midi port to the Fishman and assign another to Ableton Live. I would have to reprogram the Softstep to send on the Fishman's virtual midi port when in program change and send to the other port when controlling Ableton Live functions. A bit of work but easily doable. Fingers crossed.

Hey Rinaldo....did you finally figure out work flow to easily switch patches when using the FTP to control VSTs inside Ableton? If so, did you purchase another midi foot controller?. Using the D-Beam is not even a possibility for me. I need 20 patches, 30 tops for any gig. The only way to remember all the patch locations would require some type of foot pedal similar to soft step two or even the KM 12 step controller which unlike the FC-1 which just has up/down and banks, has 12 assignable foot switches.

There must be a simple easy work around for this. Otherwise, very few people would use the FTP for live gigs live if changing patches from was a difficult process. That's why I passed on the Roland Gr-55 as I feel soft synths offer so much more versatility. I NEVER launch the FTP app inside Ableton. I just load a VST on to a track and use any of my controllers to get audio.

I do not know why this is so confusing to me.

I am going to call Fishman tomorrow and pick their brains.

Thanks

Rock n Roll

[Reinaldo123]

I thought I had posted my solution to this but I don't see it in the forum so for the sake of completeness I'm posting it now. NOTE: This requires you to have the Softstep program open in Hosted mode.

I installed the free virtual midi driver, Loopmidi, and created two ports (LPM1 and LPM2) and enabled LPM1 in Ableton's Preferences and assigned LPM2 within the Triple Play midi preferences. I then set up a program bank in Softstep that sends program changes to LPM2 which speaks to the Triple Play VST plugin in Ableton Live. I am now able to use my Softstep to change patches within a TP track within Ableton Live.

I also set up another program bank in Softstep that speaks to LPM1 and that speaks to any other device within Ableton Live. I've tried it with both Ableton instruments as well as third-party plugins and it works.

So, I can now use one Softstep foot controller to send patch changes to either Triple Play or other instruments/effects within Ableton Live as long as I'm in the Softstep bank that sends program changes to the desired one of my two Loopmidi ports (LPM1 for Ableton plugins and LPM2 for Triple Play plugin).

[amirdariobaharkoush]

@reinaldo123

Hi, how are you? Im interested to know why you solve your problem with virtual ports and I cannot solve mines using Mac! I used FTP VST within ableton and want to use my Softstep in FTP channel. Well I selected as a midi foot device in the preferences... select midi pipe which is a virtual midi port. I selected in the modlines of the SOFTSTEP outport the cc message to virtual port and then in ableton not selected neither track or remote to not been captured by him BUT the FTP doesn't receive! Im going crazy... could be possible your solution is for PCS users?