Ableton just lost a push sale.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Kypresso
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Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Kypresso » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:40 am

Been away from music for a while and i thought that buying a push 2 would be a nice way to get back into using live.

I was about to order one from ableton when i thought i'd check out the prices on some other websites in case i could maybe save a few pounds.

While on one website, in the reviews section was someone saying about the lack of vst3 support.

I couldn't believe that live still had no support for vst3 but a quick look on google confirmed it.

Well thats cost them the sale of a push. I realize that me posting here and the loss of my custom wont bother them at all but i just cant understand wtf they are doing over there in berlin.

Vst2 has no future, vst3 is the future and more developers seem to be not doing a vst2 version of their new plugins.

If ableton dont do something very fast and tell people that they are going to support vst3, then people will soon stop supporting ableton.

I'm not going to spend any more money with them and will buy cubase 9 when it comes out next month.

It was fun while it lasted being here but i need tools that are upto date, not last decades ones.

starving student
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by starving student » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:33 am

are cubase and ableton comparable?

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:04 am

Kypresso wrote:
While on one website, in the reviews section was someone saying about the lack of vst3 support.…

Vst2 has no future, vst3 is the future and more developers seem to be not doing a vst2 version of their new plugins.

If ableton dont do something very fast and tell people that they are going to support vst3, then people will soon stop supporting ableton.
As if Live was the only major DAW not to support VST3. :roll:

You haven't done your homework. I'm sure most of us Live users look forward to VST3 support, which I feel certainly will come at some point, and what it brings to the table, but on Mac at least the plug-in availability problem is quite small as most are available as AUs.

You can read more about the VST3 discussion that is ongoing since some years in VST3 Support!
Make some music!

Kypresso
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Kypresso » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:38 pm

starving student wrote:are cubase and ableton comparable?
To me, yes.

I can make music with either, they are just tools to use.

Cubase is just a more up to date tool that can use some vst's that live cant.

Kypresso
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Kypresso » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:01 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
As if Live was the only major DAW not to support VST3. :roll:
And what does other daws lack of vst3 support have to do with my post?

I know bitwig doesn't but then again there's a lot of things that bitwig doesn't support yet.
Logic and garageband of course dont.
Protools have their own format for plugins.

So as a matter of interest, which other major daws dont support vst3?

Stromkraft wrote:You haven't done your homework.
I haven't had to do any homework since i was in college and that was over forty years ago.

But please do tell what part of my post was wrong.

Does live support vsr3, no.

Does Cubase support vst3, yes.

Has vst2 been deprecated, yes.

Is vst3 the current vst standard, yes.

Are some of the latest vst plugins using only the vst3 format and no version of these plugins will ever be released in the old vst2 format, yes.

If people want to use these latest plugins are they be able to now using live, no.

If people want to use these latest plugins are they be able to now using cubase, yes.

Stromkraft wrote:I'm sure most of us Live users look forward to VST3 support, which I feel certainly will come at some point, and what it brings to the table, but on Mac at least the plug-in availability problem is quite small as most are available as AUs.
I'm certain that live will support vst3 in some way at some time, how far away in the future that occurs is the problem.

However for those of us that want to get things done now using vst3, live is a dead end.

I dont use a mac but i'm sure au support is great for the people that do, its not what i was posting about though.

You also cant swap projects between mac and pc live users without a common plugin format which could be a problem for collaborations.

Stromkraft wrote:You can read more about the VST3 discussion that is ongoing since some years in VST3 Support!
A wonderful thread, first started OVER 3 YEARS AGO. That proves my point, i'm not willing to give them any more time to do something they should have done a long time ago.

starving student
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by starving student » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:12 pm

I don't think what you can do with cubase and a controller is comparable with what you can do with Live and Push, so if you use cubase you will have the vst support that you want, but you won't have anything that would be the basis of the reason for you purchasing a push in the first place. The two do not seem comparable to me and neither do the reasons for using both. I don't see the connection to losing a push sale, but I would like vst 3 support as well.

jlgrimes
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by jlgrimes » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:43 pm

If you are on PC lack of VST3 support will be a bigger hinderance as VST is the only supported plugin format.

On Mac however they will usually have an Audiounit version you can use instead.

That said while the list of plugins that are VST3 only are getting bigger, it is still a small amount.

On my Mac (and I have a wide variety of plugins) the only plugins that I have to use audio units because of lack of VST3 support is (Cakewalk Z3ta, Auto-Tune, and some Waves plugins).

I agree that Ableton is behind the curve here as most DAWS do support this now (referring to the DAWS that use VST as their primary format which Live does) and VST3 has been out for eight years (matter of fact VST3 is now VST3.5). I'm guessing they know they are behind on this and will probably put this in version 10. That said this won't be a huge problem until NI starts to go to VST3 and stop supporting VST2. I'm thinking though they probably have to do major rewrite to their code to get VST3 to work which is probably what is taking them so long.

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:40 pm

Kypresso wrote:
If people want to use these latest plugins are they be able to now using cubase, yes.
If you decide to go Cubase, yet feel the original Push could be a great controller for you, you should at least look at PXT General. While it won't add many Live-like functions to Cubase it still adds some unique ways to control a DAW. It's just an alternative among many, however. A second hand original Push should be able to pick up for $200 or less.

I'm not going to discuss VST3 support here, but feel free to dive into the linked discussion. It is as relevant as 3 years ago.
Make some music!

turbomartin
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by turbomartin » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:06 pm

That is great, I just bought a shit ton of vst2

skatr2
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by skatr2 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:27 am

It's been a while since I've messed with other daws , but what's preventing you from running a vst3 through cubase, rewire through ableton, and using push to play around with that?

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton just lost a push sale.

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:20 am

Kypresso wrote: So as a matter of interest, which other major daws dont support vst3?
Not that anyone cares, but but on OSX anyway I can only think of Cubase that supports VST3, and only Pro Tools that has it's own format. Only Bitwig supports only VST2.4, and only Logic supports AU alone.


The original reason for AU on OSX was poor VST hosting documentation from Steinberg, they give out great documentation for making plug ins and almost nothing to host plug ins.
VST3 I would assume adds a whole new slew of problems reverse engineering Stienbergs dazzling new format for DAW makers, so almost no DAW maker in OSX anyway is interested in wasting time on it when AU and VST2.4 work perfectly fine right now. Three years later and the only major DAW on OSX hosting VST3 is Cubase. Plenty of plug in developers years ago were mad at Apple for AU because of the extra work it entailed to keep up three formats and two OS's etc. but DAW makers all were more than happy to implement it right away. That should let you know why Ableton, MOTU, Apple, Bitwig, etc. do not host VST3. An obvious choice for hosting VST3 if it was easy out of the box would have been Bitwig, but very obviously it was easier to implement the older standard even though Bitwig could have theoretically hosted VST3 from 1.0 They want to be platform agnostic so they host 2.4, but not VST3. Emagic jumped at the chance years ago to dump VST because it was a real PITA to get correct and was 100% the cause of all issues on Apple OS9, so AU and an inevitable buyout from Apple ensued. All this is damming evidence to the lack of transparency Steinberg have for hosting VST.

So go ahead and get Cubase, but realize that AU and AAX exist not 100% because Apple and Avid are snarky closed format party poopers, but because VST isn't as "open" of a format as Stienberg tout it to be. Personally I use 2.4 all the time, it works, no issues.

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