Interface vs. Stock Output Sound Quality

[Codiferous]

Hey Guys,

I have scrubbed threads trying to find a solution for this but have been striking out.

Here's my problem: I get two drastically different sound qualities in ableton. One is great, one is awful. But only the bad one flows through to my exported audio track.

When I use my audio interface as my output device in ableton, the sound quality is great and what I want. This is when "Audio Output Device" is set to my M-Audio Mobile Pre interface.

When I select my default computer speakers as the output device in ableton, the sound quality is bad and not what I want. This is when "Audio Output Device" is set to "Speaker/HP (Realtek High Definition Audio) DX or WAVE.

But the problem is not in the speakers themselves- even when I use headphones, studio monitors, a PA, or whatever, and eliminate the hardware of speakers, the sound is poor if rendered through my default audio setting ("Speakers/HP Realtek...") and good if rendered through my audio interface (M-Audio Mobile Pre). So on the surface it may sound like "I need better computer speakers" or something, but it is not that. Again, I can use the same headphones or monitors between the two settings and the sound is very different.

This makes me think that somehow the audio interface renders a better quality and makes it sounds good, but in reality, that better quality being rendered by the interface is not actually embedded in the track, it is simply after the fact when passed through the output or something.

Since I need the interface to record, my default audio driver in ableton is set to ASIO through my M-Audio Mobile Pre, which means that is also the output.

So what ends up happening is that my track sounds great in ableton if I use my audio interface as the audio output, but then I export the song and it sounds very, very bad because from what I can gather, the signal is not being processed through the audio interface anymore(?) I use a variety of midi and audio recorded vocals/real instruments. The poor sound quality is across the board on all tracks- it is not isolated to one track type.

The problem does not seem to be with playback of the exported track through my setup either- when I take the track to other devices (computer, phone, whatever), it has the poor sound quality I hear on my computer when not using the audio interface as the output.

I originally thought I was doing something wrong with the export because it sounded great in ableton then terrible out of ableton as a WAV file. But I now realize that if not being processed through the audio interface in ableton in the first place, it sounds the same as the export (bad).

It has led me to the conclusion that somehow the signal is being processed through the interface in ableton playback, but not when rendered/exported.

Is there a way to process the track through the audio interface so that what I export is what I hear? Or something else?

Or is the only option to dumb it down so to speak and use the bad sound quality version as my basis and do what I can to make it sound better?

The sound without the interface as the output is not even 'enhanced' or 'normal'. It literally buzzes on low frequency notes and sounds terrible, even with low cut EQ.

I tried a basic send/return where all the tracks routed out through the interface then back in as an audio file and that did absolutely nothing upon export.

I have spent weeks if not longer scrubbing these threads and trying different things. I am almost certain the problem has to do with using vs. not using the interface to render the signal upon being exported.

It is super frustrating to have it sound so good when mixing then so bad when exported.

Thanks for your help.

[Stromkraft]

It has led me to the conclusion that somehow the signal is being processed through the interface in ableton playback, but not when rendered/exported

…

I am almost certain the problem has to do with using vs. not using the interface to render the signal upon being exported.

The interface itself do absolutely nothing to the digital exported file. That's all internal. You need to look at your audio settings for the internal. What are they?

Does anything sound good with your internal audio?

[Codiferous]

Thanks for your quick reply.

What do you mean 'audio settings for the internal'?

Yes, most things sound pretty good with the internal sound. Except for in Ableton.

[Codiferous]

[/quote] The interface itself do absolutely nothing to the digital exported file. That's all internal.[/quote]

That is part of the problem it seems- the interface has nothing to do with the exported file but it does in ableton playback. So what I hear in ableton is not really what I get.

[Stromkraft]

What do you mean 'audio settings for the internal'?

Preferences > Audio

Specifically:

• Audio Device
• Sample Rate
• Latency

Do a screen dump from this part of the window, post it to imgur.com or to where you prefer and link it in here with the Img tool. Put the full img link including http:// between [img]and[/img].

[Stromkraft]

The interface itself do absolutely nothing to the digital exported file. That's all internal.

That is part of the problem it seems- the interface has nothing to do with the exported file but it does in ableton playback. So what I hear in ableton is not really what I get.

I'm not sure how you mean, but focus on posting that info for now.

[Codiferous]

Audio settings for interface:



I set them as such as a result trying to get the lowest latency/best quality.

Audio settings for non-interface:



Record settings:



Default sound settings (control panel):

[Stromkraft]

Audio settings for interface:

I set them as such as a result trying to get the lowest latency/best quality.

Audio settings for non-interface:
Record settings:
Default sound settings (control panel)

I see. Does the Driver Error Compensation setting stem from you using the lesson "Setting up Audio I/O"? Normally you don't need to set this unless the audio interface fails to report correct latencies to Live. How did you verify this was the case? Does all this sound familiar at all?

I'd try to reset Driver Error Compensation to 0 for now. You can always change it later.

The internal needs to be set to ASIO I think. Don't you have to two choices for that?

You can also try and use exactly 2048, 1024, 512, 256, 128, 64, 32 for the buffer. Also when using your audio interface.

[yur2die4]

No, the problem isn't that your audio interface is changing the sound, but Windows changes the sound. Windows processes audio.

In Windows, right click your speaker on the bottom right and go to the preferences for your internal sound device. Go through all that stuff and see if there are any playback processing things going on.

Additionally, some built-in audio uses special software to process. So you might also have to see if there is another software running that is dedicated to your built in sound. Chances are it is doing sound enhancement, bass boost, etc etc.

Once you realize all this is happening, understand that many people listening on different kinds of setups might unknowingly have all these things turned on and your music will sound drastically different computer-to-computer.

You will have to make decisions as to what you intend for your music to be listened to on, who you expect the listeners to be, and whether or not you want your music to be suitable explicitly for direct output, or more 'universal'. This is something that is considered especially for a lot of commercial tracks.

[yur2die4]

In the image of properties, can you show us the 'enhancements' tab?

But yeah, the reason your music sounds weird even after being rendered is because you're playing your audio being processed through Windows. When you use asio, it a more direct route.

[Codiferous]

Audio settings for interface:

I set them as such as a result trying to get the lowest latency/best quality.

Audio settings for non-interface:
Record settings:
Default sound settings (control panel)

I see. Does the Driver Error Compensation setting stem from you using the lesson "Setting up Audio I/O"? Normally you don't need to set this unless the audio interface fails to report correct latencies to Live. How did you verify this was the case? Does all this sound familiar at all?

I'd try to reset Driver Error Compensation to 0 for now. You can always change it later.

The internal needs to be set to ASIO I think. Don't you have to two choices for that?

You can also try and use exactly 2048, 1024, 512, 256, 128, 64, 32 for the buffer. Also when using your audio interface.

Changing the ASIO error compensation did nothing for the in-ableton sound nor the export.

Changing the MME/Direct error compensation to 0 initially helped volume but the overall sound quality got worse. I exported it and it sounded like it was in a can. Then exported the resampled audio only and it was good. Then re-tried the initial export and magically the can sound was gone. Weird, I have no idea what changed.

So it seems like Ableton exports via MME/Direct rendering even if you are using ASIO.

I'm not sure what you mean 'the internal needs to be set to ASIO'. If you select ASIO, it is the same input/output. There is no selecting one input and a different output. So then you have the enhanced, untrue sound.

[yur2die4]

What are you listening to the rendered tracks on? What software?

[Stromkraft]

So it seems like Ableton exports via MME/Direct rendering even if you are using ASIO.

I'm not sure what you mean 'the internal needs to be set to ASIO'.

I mean, don't use MME. Use ASIO. That's two, right?

Audio preferences only affect playback, not exports. Ableton Live does not, I repeat does not, export via any external settings.

This is a playback issue you're having.

So how do you listen to exports, as yur2die4 already asked?

[Stromkraft]

No, the problem isn't that your audio interface is changing the sound, but Windows changes the sound. Windows processes audio.

Good idea.

[Codiferous]

In the image of properties, can you show us the 'enhancements' tab?

But yeah, the reason your music sounds weird even after being rendered is because you're playing your audio being processed through Windows. When you use asio, it a more direct route.

Here is the snapshot:



I initially thought it could be a windows processing issue but then when I opened it up in Ableton using the MME/Direct driver it sounded the same poor quality, almost identical if not identical, to the exported track.

I wonder if the interface has some sort of amp effect that makes it sound louder no matter what?

It seems like the render happens via the MME/Direct driver no matter what is selected as the audio device in Ableton. I changed the default windows recording settings to my interface hoping maybe that would cause Ableton to render it through that but no change.

Is it possible to render via the ASIO driver??