Recording modulated automation

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Stromkraft
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Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Recording modulated automation

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:02 am

Sometimes I experiment with different devices for modulating automation of other devices, Instruments and plug-ins, like sends, levels, repeats or synth parameters. Modulation sources can be Max For Live devices like Envelope or LFO or any of the MIDI plug-ins I have.

For plug-in and Live parameters there seem to be no simple way to record the result, i e the motion of the modulated parameter in question. Overdub doesn't seem to be able to record the parameter motion itself, though if I move it by hand it of course does. Likewise if I make an identical MIDI track and make it listen to the first it does record all parameters, but not the movements. I assume because the movements are not sent out from the device in question.

I'm going to try to map the modulator to a MIDI sends parameter and send that trough the MIDI buss and record from that instead. This way the incoming MIDI data will be as any other coming in and should be recordable. I'm not sure this will give me the results I want, but worth a try.

Any ideas or experiences you want to share for this kind of objective?
Make some music!

AliMc
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by AliMc » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:28 pm

There are some useful Max for Live devices on Robert Henke's website.
His LFO2.0 device will do what you're after without having to do any MIDI routing to capture the result.

http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/lfo.html

That will cover LFOs, but I'm not quite sure about how to capture other modulation sources.

ControlChange8 http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html will allow you to send out automateable CCs which could be routed through a MIDI bus and back in to your track (as you suggested).
I'm not quite sure how to use the CCs for mixer automation though. Probably with Max for Live, but it's beyond my current skills.
Hope that's of some use to you.

doubleUG
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:19 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by doubleUG » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:36 pm


Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:41 pm

AliMc wrote:There are some useful Max for Live devices on Robert Henke's website.
His LFO2.0 device will do what you're after without having to do any MIDI routing to capture the result.

http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/lfo.html

That will cover LFOs, but I'm not quite sure about how to capture other modulation sources.

ControlChange8 http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html will allow you to send out automateable CCs which could be routed through a MIDI bus and back in to your track (as you suggested).
I'm not quite sure how to use the CCs for mixer automation though. Probably with Max for Live, but it's beyond my current skills.
Hope that's of some use to you.

Thanks! You can convert most CC to other automation but it can be tricky sometimes. All of this with MFL MIDI and the plug-in variety business is stuff I return to from time to time, though as with most things MIDI you need to have some patience and explore a bit. I already have Henke's LFO but kind of abandoned it as you can't override a mapping without removing it.


Lately my MFL Audio devices has been acting up and the MIDI devices that are built on deprecated objects need to be updated. Still, when they work they add functionality hard to replace with other tools.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:43 pm

Thanks for the reminder. That object was my next move to look for. You're sharp!

(This is also about the deprecated objects I referred to above)
Make some music!

AliMc
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by AliMc » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:33 pm

I managed to get LFO (Max LFO MIDI) modulating a send on one track and recording CCs to another. I think this is what you were after.

I used 3 MIDI tracks and one MIDI bus set up in IAC Driver properties.
Track 1 has an instrument rack.
Track 2 has the ControlChange8 max device. "MIDI to" on this track is set to IAC Driver Bus1.
Track 3 is the automation recording track. "MIDI from" is set to Track 2 - this will then record CCs sent from ControlChange8.

You can then use Max for Live "LFO MIDI" or "Envelope" to modulate the 8 Macros on ControlChange8.
Make sure "Track" is On for the IAC MIDI bus IN and OUT in Lives MIDI preferences.

To map each CC generated to a send or instrument parameter on Track 1, simply have only one modulator running at a time and just use Live's MIDI mapping.
For example switch on an LFO modulating CC8, press the MIDI Map button (top right) and click the control to be modulated.
Then switch the MIDI Map button off and repeat one at a time for each modulation source.

Then, when you've made your recording, simply deactivate track 2, set "MIDI to" on Track 3 to IAC Driver Bus1 and play back your recorded modulation.

Maybe not the most elegant of solutions, but it does work. It would be a bit of a pain if you are changing modulation sources and destinations a lot.
Hope that helps.

AliMc
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:29 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by AliMc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:16 pm

Actually, maybe don't use the ControlChange8 device for this. Things started going a bit wonky when a few LFOs were added.
The MIDI mapping works nicely, but it'll need a different device to send out CC values.
A simple patch using "ctlout" object should suffice. My Max is pretty rusty though.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Recording modulated automation

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:08 pm

AliMc wrote:Actually, maybe don't use the ControlChange8 device for this. Things started going a bit wonky when a few LFOs were added.
The MIDI mapping works nicely, but it'll need a different device to send out CC values.
A simple patch using "ctlout" object should suffice. My Max is pretty rusty though.
Thanks AliMc. I got stuck editing Max devices for now. That's OK.
Make some music!

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