Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

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koranek
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Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by koranek » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:29 am

I think. So far so good.

I've been having problems for quite a while with Live taking a very long time to launch (2-5 minutes). Long delays to bring up the splash screen, long delays to launch, spinning beachball after launch, very long time to load first set after booting the default set.

Today I had a hard crash, right to the Mac rebooting. This hasn't happened in years. While investigating, I looked at the latest crash reports for Live. I found quite a lot of User Script errors. Tracking this down, I found that they were pointing to some old user scripts that were part of an old Beta for Live 9 that were not stored in the default location.

My best guess is that these files ended up getting pointed to in some preference somewhere and Live keeps trying to load them and fails on startup. I deleted the files and everything is working so much better. No delays on any part of starting or loading sets.

Excellent!
Last edited by koranek on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jestermgee
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Re: Live slow startup solved!

Post by jestermgee » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:27 am

Nice work. Always good when you can track down an issue.

A very good example though of simple things that can cause instability that few consider would be an issue. Probably like me when you install a new version of Live you simply carry over your whole script folder etc. I will typically groom this every now and then like most things archiving crap I don't need from it, same with VSts too, get rid of them if you just don't use them anymore.

koranek
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Re: Live slow startup solved!

Post by koranek » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:34 pm

Crap. Spoke too soon. After some computer reboots, the problem is back. It may be Live Indexer, but Activity Monitor doesn't show very high CPU for this process when things are hanging.

Well, I'll have to go back to my previous strategy. Start Live and go do something else for 10 minutes.
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miyaru
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by miyaru » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:31 am

Have you got loads of VST or other third party plug ins? Say, the complete Waves bundle or so? That can take long too, but not ten minutes.....
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by jestermgee » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:43 pm

Also the template you use as your startup template?

I created a template some time ago that I wanted as a "one-size-solves-everything" solution that had sends, busses, effects and some instrument tracks pre-loaded for many different styles I might like to make but it increased my load time from 20-30 seconds to about 1 minutes which was painful enough so I stripped it all back again and now just have my most common send and busses with completely blank tracks which now has things ticking again.

If it references a VST that is having some issues it could be stalling. I don't believe the library indexer affects load time because it starts indexing after the software has loaded from what I have seen.

I think you were on the right track with what you did. You could try make a backup of your Ableton Prefs folder then make a fresh install and start using that as a test. If it loads up real quick then it could be an issue with your pref file or with a custom startup template. If it starts taking ages again, completely remove the VST directory from Live and see if things boot quicker. If that is the case I would then personally remove all VST plugins from the directory and add them back 1 at a time and test.

I guess last thing would be to send some logs to Ableton and see if anything in there shines light on the long start times. Anything over 1-2 minutes just to open Live I would call unacceptable. I purchased SSD for everything in my system (which cost a decent chunk of change over time) because I was frustrated enough loading a large project and taking 2 minutes to load. I could not handle waiting 5 or 10 minutes for something to load on even my most patient of days. Throw in just a single software crash and I would walk away.

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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by Angstrom » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:56 pm

If I start Live by clicking on a relatively empty set, specifically with no Max devices in it. Live will load in 3 seconds

If I start Live by clicking on the same set but with just one factory provided LFO Max device in, Live will load in > 60 seconds

If I set my Max location in preferences to be blank Live will load in 3 seconds.
I have no idea where the problem lies. Noooo idea at all. :|

I have uninstalled both Live and max, reinstalled and moved their locations to my C drive SSD, but the time remains the same. If a set, or default set has a Max device then I have time to boil an egg before the computer responds again.

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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by jestermgee » Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:08 am

Angstrom wrote:If I start Live by clicking on a relatively empty set, specifically with no Max devices in it. Live will load in 3 seconds

If I start Live by clicking on the same set but with just one factory provided LFO Max device in, Live will load in > 60 seconds

If I set my Max location in preferences to be blank Live will load in 3 seconds.
I have no idea where the problem lies. Noooo idea at all. :|

I have uninstalled both Live and max, reinstalled and moved their locations to my C drive SSD, but the time remains the same. If a set, or default set has a Max device then I have time to boil an egg before the computer responds again.
Yeah that's interesting and one of the reasons I have never used a Max device myself, It kind of reminds me of a complex version of Synthedit and I had some issues with poorly coded synths I downloaded many moons ago that ruined the chance of opening projects.

Seems possibly it needs to load library's into memory or contact some online service or something that causes a delay

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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by koranek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:47 pm

I have multiple levels of delays.
1: Delay before I see the splash screen
2: Delay while it scans plugins when the splash screen displays
3: Beach Ball Spin while I try to load the first set (after default set loads).

I think some of it is Live Indexer after the program actually loads. But Activity Monitor usually shows low CPU at the beginning when it is hanging.

When I load the first set, it takes a very long time before I even see the message that the set is loading.

After the first set gets loaded, Live settles down. Loading other sets goes pretty fast.

I expect Max to slow things down. This is more than that.

My Live template is very simple. One audio track with some clips, no effects. A blank midi track. A midi track with Kontakt, but no library loaded into Kontakt. That's it.

Plus after is settles down, I can quite Live and start it up again. It will then start up as expected. But if I reboot my Mac and start Live, it will be very slow as described.
Last edited by koranek on Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:05 pm

Is there any difference if you open it with nothing connected to your computer? No interface no midi controllers no external HD. And also all Remote Surfaces in Live midi preferences set to None and the sound driver set to built-in.

It's a way to determine whether he issue is internal or external.
(Oh, also change the directory for default vsts to an empty one)

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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by koranek » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:42 pm

OK, doing something else for 10 minutes was an exaggeration. (actually seemed longer)

Here are the numbers.

Boot Machine
Boot Live
Time to Splash Screen 42 sec
Initialize and Scan 38 sec
Default set loading time - 1 sec
Delay before Loading Set Message appears (Beach Ball Hang)- 1:46. Yikes!
Time to load the set - depends on set.

Quit Live and restart
Splash 2 sec
Init and Scan 1:07
Delay before Loading set message - none

Quit and restart
Splash - 2 sec
Init and scan 20 sec
Delay before start of loading set message - none

So the worst case is the first launch of Live after booting the Mac.

And there is this long delay trying to load the first set after Mac boot. This is not dependent on which set I try to load. Subsequent loading of sets has no delay before starting to load, just the delay of loading the set itself which will depend on size, plugs, M4L etc.
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Fizmarble
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by Fizmarble » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:53 pm

I'm on PC, but I have very similar issues. I am tuning into this thread for solutions.
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by sparklepuff » Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:03 pm

I have a quad core i7 MBP and Live takes minutes to open. It just beachballs for a minute while activity monitor shows 100% usage. When it eventually opens up a blank set, every action freezes live, such as opening preferences, selecting a preference tab, changing audio interface input or output, changing buffer size. As soon as you click on anything, it freezes and beachballs. It's been this way for months. I also have a new touch bar MBP purchased last week. Live exhibits the same behavior on that machine as well. I feel like I need to roll back to an earlier version but none of my live sets will open.
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Re: Live slow startup solved! (Not Really)

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:48 pm

sparklepuff wrote:I have a quad core i7 MBP and Live takes minutes to open. It just beachballs for a minute while activity monitor shows 100% usage. When it eventually opens up a blank set, every action freezes live, such as opening preferences, selecting a preference tab, changing audio interface input or output, changing buffer size. As soon as you click on anything, it freezes and beachballs. It's been this way for months. I also have a new touch bar MBP purchased last week. Live exhibits the same behavior on that machine as well. I feel like I need to roll back to an earlier version but none of my live sets will open.
sounds like something is corrupted in your setup. did you migrate straight over from your old Mac to the new one?

before trying rolling back as a test i would create a new user account and trying running Live in that. also try disabling your audio plugins.
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