Advice for external library

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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aklisiewicz
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Advice for external library

Post by aklisiewicz » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:53 pm

I use Live9 (Full version). Need to buy some external libs and instruments.
I'm mostly interested in:
- cinematic type sounds
- ethnic sounds
- vocals (choir etc.)

For the most part Ableton sounds are not the best and I probably should have gone with buing basic version and adding sounds from other manufacturers (anyway it's to late now).
After upgrading from Live7 90% of my plugins do not work anymore. Some free some paid, but the paid ones are to expensive to upgrade one by one. I use ATMOSPHERE (which seems to be an earlier version of OMNISPHERE.

1. I was thinking about KOMPLETE Ultimatehttps://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... e/pricing/ - 11 and I do not understand why the price on NI site is $1200 while on many other sites it's $1000 ?


2. For those who own KOMPLETE - how would I search sounds within Live ? I see NI has it's own interface and program to select sounds (hear the samples) but not sure how this would work in Live. Finding something in library of 80 thousand sounds by browsing would be a nightmare.

3. Another option to KOMPLETE is Gravity https://www.heavyocity.com/product/gravity/ + some packs (Vocalise) + DAMAGE https://www.heavyocity.com/product/damage/

I know both of these products are god but I need some opinions on how they perform within Live9+, how they are accessed, the interface, easy of use, kompatybility etc.
I would love to hear opinions mostly from those who use those products (no guesswork).

THANK YOU - Art


PS>
Here is a sample of the music type I'm into (this is from my early beginnings about 10 years ago)....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D-lbINXiKQ&t=178s
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Advice for external library

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:03 pm

aklisiewicz wrote: 2. For those who own KOMPLETE - how would I search sounds within Live ? I see NI has it's own interface and program to select sounds (hear the samples) but not sure how this would work in Live. Finding something in library of 80 thousand sounds by browsing would be a nightmare.
Audiomodder for the presets. I love Komplete! Didn't install Kontakt though as I have Sampler and make my own sounds most of the time.

On the plus side of Suite you have Max For Live. Install all the free packs! I don't like the MFL synths especially, but you might. What I like is the MFL MIDI and audio effects and tools.
Make some music!

digitalgeist
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by digitalgeist » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:46 pm

aklisiewicz wrote:1. I was thinking about KOMPLETE Ultimatehttps://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... e/pricing/ - 11 and I do not understand why the price on NI site is $1200 while on many other sites it's $1000 ?

2. For those who own KOMPLETE - how would I search sounds within Live ? I see NI has it's own interface and program to select sounds (hear the samples) but not sure how this would work in Live. Finding something in library of 80 thousand sounds by browsing would be a nightmare.

3. Another option to KOMPLETE is Gravity https://www.heavyocity.com/product/gravity/ + some packs (Vocalise) + DAMAGE https://www.heavyocity.com/product/damage/
Hey there,
I'm a Komplete Ultimate owner with a few extra Kontakt libraries and the Komplete Kontrol S61 keyboard and also an Omnisphere owner. They definitely aren't cheap but you get what you pay for.

1. I believe the prices you're seeing are for Komplete Ultimate ($1200) for a new buyer, or Komplete Ultimate update from Komplete Select ($1000). Best guess. I find it for $1200 new through Sweetwater.

2. The preset browsers within the virtual instruments have categories (much like Omnisphere) - you can search for Soundscapes or Bass or Synth Brass, Orchestral, etc. It pares down your options through each category when you drill down and shortens the list of presets. In something like Kontakt, you'll have to know what's in the libraries you own. Action Strikes, for example, is for cinematic orchestral hits. Probably not the best place to look for a synth organ! So you wouldn't be looking through the Live library on the left pane, you would go through the VSTi instead.

2a. Depending on your budget, Native Instruments' own Komplete Kontrol keyboards are AWESOME for their preset management. They run as a plugin allowing you to browse the ENTIRE KOMPLETE ULTIMATE LIBRARY based on sounds and sound type. I highly recommend anybody with Komplete to get one. It has dramatically sped up the amount of time I spend working rather than digging through their insane number of presets. Select a sound or type of sound you want, and it'll open whatever instrument that applies. Check out the lineup here: https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... keyboards/

3. Those libraries load up through Kontakt so see #2 above.

If I could suggest some sound libraries especially geared towards cinematic/orchestral works, depending on your budget, check out Spitfire Audio. It's premium stuff but imho, totally worth every single penny. I bought the Olafur Arnalds Evolutions library recently and love it. Do you really need 5x Hans Zimmer piano libraries though? Who doesn't? You can buy their whole collection for a low price of $9800 haha :lol:
--
Thanks!
Alex K/ Digital Geist

http://www.digitalgeist.com

aklisiewicz
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Advice for external library

Post by aklisiewicz » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:07 pm

Thank you guys for sharing. Spitfire sounds are awesome. After checking just few samples it feels like everything else is a crap! unfortunately the price is a crap for me ;-0
What I don't like so much about KOMPLETE is that in the Ultimate package I get stuff that I would probably never use for the type of music I like. I would really be happy if they let you select packages into the collection. Say I get 60 instruments out of 100, so I select the ones I need. This type of philosophy would work much better for me. Of course I can buy each of them separately but then I would end up buying half of the amount for the same price. I wonder if there is any other company that offers something like that?
As far as NI keyboard I've seen it in the store and the lights with sections are awesome, plus all the knobs mapped. I already have 2 keyboards and I'm not sure if I should make another investment (as I do not make money of my music). I also thought if I buy a keyboard with so called SELECT set then paying another $1200 for the KOMPLETE ULTIMATE would be like duplicating certain components and paying for them twice.
I see some companies who offer those products set the prices for people who really make lots of money by making music so those products for average Joe in most cases are out of range. Although sounds and tools are unbelievable and have top quality the pricing is really to high. That is bad philosophy because it will cause lots of piracy. I always like to use licensed software because I'm aware that everybody has to make a living of something but sometimes there is to much of an exageration. I think NI has their prices toned properly and the only question is if the quality is really god.
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

aklisiewicz
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Advice for external library

Post by aklisiewicz » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:19 am

Is KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate in your opinion sufficient for creating (quality) cinematic sounds and music ? If not whet else would you guys suggest ?
I am also thinking about buying KOMPLETE Select keyboard. Are there any known issues with this product and Live9 ?

Art
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

aklisiewicz
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Advice for external library

Post by aklisiewicz » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:05 am

Is it possible to have KOMPLETE 11 installed on 2 computers ?
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

Stromkraft
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:04 am

aklisiewicz wrote:Is it possible to have KOMPLETE 11 installed on 2 computers ?
Yes.
Make some music!

digitalgeist
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by digitalgeist » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:55 pm

aklisiewicz wrote:Is KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate in your opinion sufficient for creating (quality) cinematic sounds and music ?
Oh yeah, it's almost too much. There's enough material in there where if you can't make something cinematic, you have to look in the mirror and not at your library. ;) Damage, Evolve Mutations, Emotive Strings, they're all great libraries.
aklisiewicz wrote:If not whet else would you guys suggest ?
What I would suggest is try it out as a demo. Maybe you don't need all the stuff in Ultimate?
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/s ... -versions/
aklisiewicz wrote:I am also thinking about buying KOMPLETE Select keyboard. Are there any known issues with this product and Live9 ?
The Komplete Kontrol keyboard series is something I'm a big fan of. There's a setup guide that comes with it for Ableton Live so you can use it as an Instrument Rack and control the transport controls in Live.

Also worth noting - the Komplete Kontrol keyboards come with Komplete Select. You can upgrade to Komplete from there if you choose rather than buying Komplete and then getting the keyboard. It might save you some money/headaches.
aklisiewicz wrote:Is it possible to have KOMPLETE 11 installed on 2 computers ?
Yes, that's not a problem. Just remember you need to have an external drive because the sample libraries are ~350gb.
--
Thanks!
Alex K/ Digital Geist

http://www.digitalgeist.com

aklisiewicz
Posts: 464
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:33 am

Re: Advice for external library

Post by aklisiewicz » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:19 pm

digitalgeist - thanks for your info.
Why you say I need an external drive ? Can't I use my internet HD ?
I have plenty of space but why external? I ordered Keyboard + Komplete Ultimate 11 today. I think it is comming on SSD (right?), so the question is if I can use this same SSD for anything or only for installations ? Can I use the software on two computers ?


Arthur
"You are what you think you are"
Sadarahu

Saxer
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by Saxer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:13 pm

It comes on HD for installation (and backup) only. External drive is better because Kontakt sampler streams from your disc. When you have a lot of streaming it can have timing problems when the OS is working too.

Stromkraft
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:45 am

digitalgeist wrote: Just remember you need to have an external drive because the sample libraries are ~350gb.
You know about 1TB and 2TB internal SSD drives, right?
Make some music!

digitalgeist
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by digitalgeist » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:35 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
digitalgeist wrote: Just remember you need to have an external drive because the sample libraries are ~350gb.
You know about 1TB and 2TB internal SSD drives, right?

External drive for samples is common practice. Also, you can just bring the external drive with you if you have a production computer and a laptop for performing rather than install the samples twice, which could take hours. Not many people have a performance laptop with a 2TB SSD internal drive. For example, a Macbook Pro with 2TB SSD would run you $4000 - without any other upgrades. Not very practical when a 2TB external USB 3.0 drive costs $70.
--
Thanks!
Alex K/ Digital Geist

http://www.digitalgeist.com

Stromkraft
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:36 pm

digitalgeist wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:
digitalgeist wrote: Just remember you need to have an external drive because the sample libraries are ~350gb.
You know about 1TB and 2TB internal SSD drives, right?

External drive for samples is common practice. Also, you can just bring the external drive with you if you have a production computer and a laptop for performing rather than install the samples twice, which could take hours. Not many people have a performance laptop with a 2TB SSD internal drive. For example, a Macbook Pro with 2TB SSD would run you $4000 - without any other upgrades. Not very practical when a 2TB external USB 3.0 drive costs $70.
I got a 1TB internal SSD. All my friends making music too. I don't make that much money, so if I can afford it I think about anyone investing in gear can. It's a matter of priority.

Don't assume. Make choices out of a reason (or several), not just because it's the cheapest or "other people do it".
Make some music!

digitalgeist
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Re: Advice for external library

Post by digitalgeist » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:38 pm

Stromkraft wrote:I got a 1TB internal SSD. All my friends making music too. I don't make that much money, so if I can afford it I think about anyone investing in gear can. It's a matter of priority.

Don't assume. Make choices out of a reason (or several), not just because it's the cheapest or "other people do it".
I'm not assuming anything, using an external drive for samples is common practice. It's even the recommended way to work according to Ableton's own site:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... rive-setup
--
Thanks!
Alex K/ Digital Geist

http://www.digitalgeist.com

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