NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jamoni9
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NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by jamoni9 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:42 am

Am in a huge predicament weather to head towards Komplete11 with their huge selection of toys... or to up the budget and go to the Sub37.. I am more than happy with the EQs/FXs in Ableton (as I know my way around them).

What are your thoughts?

bosonHavoc
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by bosonHavoc » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:13 pm

Sub 37 and Ableton Live Suite!!
If you do not have any instruments I would really consider getting at least 1 analog synth.
I dream of the Sub 37 but I have the Minitaur and Arp Odyssey. I love them both!

I also have Kompete and I hardly use it. My go to virtual synth is Ableton Operator
Komplete is great and very powerful but if you don't have Ableton Suite I would consider that first.
If you do have Ableton Suite get to know all the tools before looking elsewhere
Figure out what you may be missing for your music or workflow.
Ableton really has most of the bases covered

A lot of options are great but you can get buried in options accomplishing nothing.
limitations can spawn creativity more than options can.

my .02 anyway :)

login
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by login » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:42 pm

I would support getting at least 1 HW synth to experience hands on control.

Komplete can be overwhelming if you don't have specific needs to cover.

Tarekith
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Tarekith » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:06 pm

I would agree with what they said. Komplete gives you a lot of tools, but it's almost too much at times. The Sub37 would be a LOT more limited, but then again so is a guitar in comparison. Nothing wrong with focusing on an instrument while you save up for Live Suite next ;)

jamoni9
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by jamoni9 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:32 pm

I do currently own suite.. and undoubtedly its inbuilt tools are fantastic (despite the reviews they may get). Analog is my go to, with Operator close by for deeper sounds.. though they take slightly more processing it seems, and lack solid presets (Imo)

I was slowly becoming more curious about expanding out - software or hardware (being my first piece of it). Ive been limiting myself to operator and Analog (analog being a nice tool once its been explored), even sampler at times. Komplete does appear to be powerful, but ’padded’ with things Ill probably never touch on.. which is why I looked at a single synth get my head around. Plus I’ve only heard great things.. Wanting to bring my production up a notch :wink: - practise included!

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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by login » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:43 pm

If you are starting Komplete is waaay too much, NI stuff is great but also deep. Reaktor will just be enough to get lost and then you have Massive, Absynth, FM8 and all the reaktor synths.

So yeah a single synth you learn and go deep can be very very rewarding.

I do like Live's instruments but there is also other stuff out there for different character and features.

My favorite third party synths are Diva by U.he and Largo by waldorf.

Stromkraft
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:18 pm

bosonHavoc wrote: I also have Kompete and I hardly use it. My go to virtual synth is Ableton Operator
Komplete is great and very powerful but if you don't have Ableton Suite I would consider that first.
If you do have Ableton Suite get to know all the tools before looking elsewhere
Figure out what you may be missing for your music or workflow.
Ableton really has most of the bases covered
No, Ableton doesn't have it covered with Suite. Komplete, in my case Reaktor with synths Monark and Razor, FM8, Massive totally obliterates the Suite Synths (Sampler and Electric are great I think).

It's not even a meaningful contest IMO. These two lines of Instruments are not even in the same league with the Live ones sounding digital and "not real" whereas none of my friends can tell when I'm using real hardware or any of my Komplete Instruments.

This doesn't mean you cannot make great tracks with only Live Suite, but to claim these lines are at par with each other is only laughable to me. There's freeware out there that sound better than the Live synths. How's that for competition?
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:21 pm

jamoni9 wrote:Am in a huge predicament weather to head towards Komplete11 with their huge selection of toys... or to up the budget and go to the Sub37.. I am more than happy with the EQs/FXs in Ableton (as I know my way around them).

What are your thoughts?
Moog Sub37, Live Standard and some of the great freeware synths out there. Unless you can get into Sampler as much as me and would love to work with Max For Live devices. Those are two very strong reasons for Suite. You can always update later though.
Make some music!

login
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by login » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:55 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
bosonHavoc wrote: I also have Kompete and I hardly use it. My go to virtual synth is Ableton Operator
Komplete is great and very powerful but if you don't have Ableton Suite I would consider that first.
If you do have Ableton Suite get to know all the tools before looking elsewhere
Figure out what you may be missing for your music or workflow.
Ableton really has most of the bases covered
No, Ableton doesn't have it covered with Suite. Komplete, in my case Reaktor with synths Monark and Razor, FM8, Massive totally obliterates the Suite Synths (Sampler and Electric are great I think).

It's not even a meaningful contest IMO. These two lines of Instruments are not even in the same league with the Live ones sounding digital and "not real" whereas none of my friends can tell when I'm using real hardware or any of my Komplete Instruments.

This doesn't mean you cannot make great tracks with only Live Suite, but to claim these lines are at par with each other is only laughable to me. There's freeware out there that sound better than the Live synths. How's that for competition?
Can your friends distinguish between a DX7 and operator? what hardware sounds like absynth? and massive? and fm8? maybe the digital and not real dx7?

Why you write so much nonsense?

I also prefer NI synths, sound, GUI and feature wise. But that part of "digital and "not real"" is just hyperbole.

Absynth, Massive and reaktor are so much more complex and feature rich that any of Live included synths it is not even a contest, but I have heard countless tracks made just with Ableton synths that sound incredible, it is clear that with the right processing you can get very good results.

jamoni9
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by jamoni9 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:50 am

Thanks so much for the input! Value your insight.

By the looks of things, Komplete is going to be vastly overwhelming;with me probably only touching on the Massive/Monarch/FM8 area as well as exploring the Kontact libraries... (For the price of these individually the bundle is the better deal here),

Equally this could serve me quite well for the moment;.. though, there is something exciting about the hardware and its capabilities, limited or otherwise..

Sure, in the mix Analog can give me 'gritty' to 'rounded' sounds, just thinking one of the two will carry more 'weight'. I have touched massive briefly, and its presets are heavy off the bat. I'm still on the fence :?

Synthbuilder
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Synthbuilder » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:12 am

Do buy a hardware synth of some sort. Buying second hand will give you a bit more cash to spend on other toys. Bear in mind though, adding a hardware synth (or effects) does change your workflow - you'll need to deal with external midi or USB and you'll encounter timing problems as well as adding wiring to your tidy ITB set up. This change in workflow can be very beneficial and will lead you down new sonic paths or it can be just a pain especially as you add more hardware. Everyone has their own take on this. You can only find out by trying it yourself.

Do buy a decent VST synth of some sort. It doesn't have to Komplete. Take a listen to U-He's DIVA, Zebra and RePro-1 if you want the analogue tone. Take a listen to Synapse Audio's Legend too.

Tony

Stromkraft
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:26 am

login wrote:
Can your friends distinguish between a DX7 and operator? what hardware sounds like absynth? and massive? and fm8? maybe the digital and not real dx7?

Why you write so much nonsense?

I also prefer NI synths, sound, GUI and feature wise. But that part of "digital and "not real"" is just hyperbole.
Operator has nothing on the DX7 despite the noise. Not even FM8 is very close to the original, but this is not the question. The real question is does it sound good in this song? That applies to anything.

What I wrote is not hyperbole on my side, it's my sincere opinion after some years trying to make Operator sound good enough. You most likely understand this is also a question about how you arrange and mix things and what role different instruments play in the song. The way I use those Komplete instruments they sure stand up to the Analog 4, Bass Station, Juno-60, Juno-6, Trident, Minilogue and other hardware.

Not that the hardware doesn't sound better. Most of the time it does. But those Komplete instruments I mentioned in my previous post can stand side by side to those above and not sound pale. This is what it's all about.

I didn't mention Absynth, as I don't use it, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to bring that synth up. I'm not aware of anything like it in hardware.

In the end all synths or electronic instruments are different in character and have different qualities, no matter if being soft synths or hardware. The synths I mentioned, including Operator, simply do not suit my taste. I don't like how it sounds most of the time. Or even if I do, I like other synths better.

Again, a skilled programmer and composer can make any instrument sound great. It's a question of working with what you have. I choose to not bother with Operator or any native Live synth except Sampler, Simpler and Electric. You probably can make Operator sing. I can't and I won't waste my time trying to any longer.

I mention this here to make people, coming to Live, think about their options. There's nothing wrong exploring what Ableton offers. As time goes by I dislike the sound of the native Live synths more and more and I love my choices more. That's my way and does not need to be any other's unless they want to.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:32 am

Synthbuilder wrote: Take a listen to U-He's DIVA, Zebra and RePro-1 if you want the analogue tone. Take a listen to Synapse Audio's Legend too.
Great ideas.
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:37 am

jamoni9 wrote: By the looks of things, Komplete is going to be vastly overwhelming;with me probably only touching on the Massive/Monarch/FM8 area as well as exploring the Kontact libraries... (For the price of these individually the bundle is the better deal here),

Equally this could serve me quite well for the moment;.. though, there is something exciting about the hardware and its capabilities, limited or otherwise..
You should also remember the second hand market. Getting just a couple of them might be a good starter, though using the freeware out there will teach you a lot about your own taste as will the experience of owning and using hardware.

Hardware resets your expectations most of the time.
Make some music!

jamoni9
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Re: NI Komplete vs Moog Sub37

Post by jamoni9 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:14 am

I hadn't considered the second-hand market.. definitely will look. Getting out-the-box seems very appealing in regards to workflow, even vibe.

I'm swaying away from the Komplete bundle with the introduction of U-he Diva. Its more concise and one that has cropped up a lot but I've always overlooked. I feel it could be underrated.

"Hardware resets your expectations"... How so?

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