Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Codski
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Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:00 pm

Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by Codski » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:16 pm

Hi, So I have a residency at a small venue and the soundystem is horrible - I am having a hard time getting a good level without clipping as if the signal gets too hot, the whole system shuts down and takes a min or 2 to reboot. I want to use a limiter to prevent any unwanted peaks tripping the amp. So I have been trying to figure out a way to get Traktor (2.11) and Ableton 9.7.1) Running together - Easy rigt? ...Until I try and route traktors outputs (Via soundflower) into ableton. everything still works well and ableton link works fine but the audio dosnt match up due to latency. The ableton Link troubleshooter says to just adjust the master track delay to compensate for any audio offset. When I fiddle with the mstr delay, I can get the audio to sync up but if I change the tempo up or down on either Ableton or Traktor, it drifts - but oddly, when I lower the tempo back to what it was when I synced them up, they line up again. Is there a way of adjusting the ableton link at a midi level? or can I use a 3rd party plugin or max device to help me? it seems like a simple thing to do, seeing as the audio always seems to be a set distance apart.
Cheers.

yur2die4
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by yur2die4 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:27 pm

I don't know if Link is as well suited for having Traktor routed 'into' Live. Especially if you're adding a track delay setting, that is sure to mess things up since it is a factor of sync that Link probably is not taking into account.

When I use it with two softwares, I use two audio outputs (like either two interfaces or one interface and one built-in).

As for the loudness thing, make sure your equipment is not too loud on your end. Your interface volume knob shouldn't be maxed out. You just want a clear signal going to their system. and the input on their system shouldn't be too high either, not so high that there is distortion.

login
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by login » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Traktor has a limiter for the master https://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/12/s ... hen-djing/

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Codski wrote:try and route traktors outputs (Via soundflower)
Why can't you route this via your audio interface instead? Soundflower is in my experience prone to adding problems.
Make some music!

S4racen
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by S4racen » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Codski wrote:try and route traktors outputs (Via soundflower)
Why can't you route this via your audio interface instead? Soundflower is in my experience prone to adding problems.
Same here, always avoid unless its completely necessary...

Cheers
D

orbita
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by orbita » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:18 am

Anybody figure this out?

I'm having similar problem. I think the problem is the combination of sync, delay compensation and roundtrip. I expect routing back in via analog would suffer the same problem since the final output of traktor and ableton are synced, routing traktor into ableton has some latency across the soundcard or loopback device it pushes other ableton tracks forward which in turn puts the Ableton LINK out of sync pulling Traktor forward and pushing ableton forward again...

I think the only answer is some kind of audio->midi clock sync similar to how ERM multiclock works. Which would provide Traktor with a clock that is ahead of Ableton's output (by the dpc amount) and then allow Ableton to delay it accordingly to line up on the way back in. This would mean Traktor would be running slightly ahead of Ableton clock but the final output would be in sync.

pottering
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by pottering » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:39 pm

Soundflower (or any other virtual audio cable) is basically EXTERNAL AUDIO, so it works similar as using external hardware.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... with-MIDI-

orbita
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by orbita » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:54 pm

Yeah I kinda figured that. However, what's missing from that page you linked is any details on using external hardware with their own sequencer, like Drum machines.

It says "If the audio sounds out of sync, adjust the Hardware Latency slider." This doesn't work if the external hardware is generating it's own notes, rather than coming from Ableton via the external instrument device. Midi notes coming from Ableton are plugin delay compensated. Unfortunately the midi clock that Ableton emits cannot be delay compensated, and not it appears can Ableton Link.

Traktor behaves like a sequenced drum machine so it ends up suffering in the same way.

orbita
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Re: Ableton + Traktor Link + Latency doing my head in.

Post by orbita » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:40 am

I raised this as a suggestion in ableton centercode

L10-SUG-3424

https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 9}&a=v&t=0

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At the moment it's not possible to sync external software and hardware that have their own sequencers and route the audio back through Ableton and keep the signals in sync with other tracks playing in Ableton. This includes:
- Syncing an external drum machine and route the output into Ableton for processing
- Syncing Traktor software (and possibly others) and route the output back into Ableton

This is because the midi clock and the "Ableton Link" feature do not have an option for Automatic delay compensation.

This should be an option because in the case where the audio is mixed externally, the DPC is not required

At the moment, in order to achieve running external sequenced audio through Ableton, one needs to purchase expensive 3rd party hardware such as ERM multiclock or SND ACME.

Syncing Traktor properly would seem to require the mentioned hardware plus a midi interface to route the midi back in.

Clearly this is not desirable and would be seem to be fixed by having a delay compensated options for midi-clock and Ableton Link. For Ableton link, the PDC should ideally be applied on a per-client basis.

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