Latency doesn't make any sense...

[Zyko1]

Hi All

Ok we all know about latency-issues when it comes to recording external synths and stuff like that, there's the audio buffer setting and blabla. Optimized my OS (Win10) for best performance (turned off all the fancy animation stuff and backgroundtasks (even the antivirus!)) etc.

Still, I get a latency which doesn't correlate at all with my setup! Buffer is down to 128 samples and Ableton tells me this would correspond to a latency of about 7-8ms (Roundtrip, so In is around 3-4ms and out is around 3-4ms) (RME FireFace UCX via USB).

So why in spaghetti monster's name do all my synthrecordings have a 20-30ms latency??? I'm spitting out midi-notes from Ableton (masterclock) to the synth (doesn't matter which one) and record the synth's audio-output via the FireFace back into Ableton into an audiotrack.

I can get my tempest and other gear with it's own sequencer - clocked by Ableton - to be really tight with almost no latency by delaying the midi-clock to said instruments by about minus 20-30ms. But I can't do that when I play a synth live or sequence it from an Ableton-miditrack.

I have "reduced latency when monitoring" off, because if you turn that on it throws off the timing all the time when switching around tracks and it's seriously not how one should have to work. Also, the track-latency settings (those below every track-volume-slider) doesn't seem to have an effect on live-input or recorded audioclips... It seriously drives me nuts! I almost gave up hope because I tried so many different things I found in similar threads and this is kind of my last resort, asking here in the Forum. If I can't sort this out I will buy a Mixer with built in Recording and be done with "computer as central hub for everything"...

[hems]

To monitor with the minimun latency, make sure on every project you click on:
-> Options -> Reduce latency when monitoring

Or just create a new one, click that go to Preferences and save it as a default project.


If you recording a Synth and you are sending MIDI notes FROM ableton to the SYNTH and then recording the audio back you will have latency because when "the grid comes" the MIDI note still have to go out and the sound has to go back in, to correct that you have to set the TRACK delay to a negative number in order to account for that latency.

If you sending MIDI CLOCK out of ableton you will end up in a similar situation, but to correct that you will have to go under the MIDI OUTPUT on your preferences and set the CLOCK latency to be negative.

I hope this helps! It's very counter-intuitive but most of the times it work as long as you don't get nervous

[Zyko1]

Hello hems

I appreciate the time you took for trying to help... but everything you wrote is not news to me.

The "reduced latency when Monitoring" is not an option to solve this problems, as whenever you change a track (not project, track in the sense of midi- or audio-track!) it changes the timing relative to the other running tracks...

Also the delaying of the midi-clock I know about, as I wrote initially. No problem with drummachines etc. which have their own sequencer, as I can compensate that with the midi-clock-delay settings.

I try to better describe the problem:
MIDI goes out from Ableton MIDI-track through USB-cable to a MOTU Midiexpress 128, from there throgh midi-cable to a synthesizer. Audio goes out from synthesizer through audiocable into FireFace UCX, from there through USB into Ableton audiotrack. All audio-clips I record that way are 20-30ms OFF the grid! But with my audio-buffer-settings it should be only around 7-8ms!
Why is that and how to improve it?

It seems no help if I play with the track-delay-settings (just below every volume-fader), I cannot hear any audible difference when changing these settings.

[Stromkraft]

It seems no help if I play with the track-delay-settings (just below every volume-fader), I cannot hear any audible difference when changing these settings.

Stop doing that. Those settings only add latency.

Does the recording differ from Live?

Are you recording synced external sequencer played audio or live playing? If the former set monitor to off in the recording track. If Live playing, are you using the External Instrument device?

[Zyko1]

Hi Stromkraft

Its MIDI-clips that sre played to the synth. They are 100% quantized of course, and the attack on the synth is on 0.
MIDI goes out from Ableton MIDI-track "External Instrument" through USB-cable to a MOTU Midiexpress 128, from there throgh midi-cable to a synthesizer. Audio goes out from synthesizer through audiocable into FireFace UCX, from there through USB into Ableton audiotrack (aufiotrack-input grabbed from the firefaceport).

[Stromkraft]

Hi Stromkraft

Its MIDI-clips that sre played to the synth. They are 100% quantized of course, and the attack on the synth is on 0.
MIDI goes out from Ableton MIDI-track "External Instrument" through USB-cable to a MOTU Midiexpress 128, from there throgh midi-cable to a synthesizer. Audio goes out from synthesizer through audiocable into FireFace UCX, from there through USB into Ableton audiotrack (aufiotrack-input grabbed from the firefaceport).

First of all, turn off monitor on the recording audio track. Monitor on assumes a live player and that what is heard on monitor should playback as heard.

What about adjusting the Hardware Latency slider so that the clip plays on beat with the metronome? Tried that?

What happens if you remove track delays and use this instead? Usually, adjusting the Hardware Latency is all I need to do.

Of course any added effects with latency can offset synced playback if some instruments are directly monitored and others are monitored in Live, though recording happens before effects. You might need to remove these (not just turn off as that leaves latency) for recording in order to hear what's going on.

It's probably a good idea to make a template with all synths set up properly for your instruments.

[hems]

:
MIDI goes out from Ableton MIDI-track through USB-cable to a MOTU Midiexpress 128, from there throgh midi-cable to a synthesizer. Audio goes out from synthesizer through audiocable into FireFace UCX, from there through USB into Ableton audiotrack. All audio-clips I record that way are 20-30ms OFF the grid! But with my audio-buffer-settings it should be only around 7-8ms!

If your audio buffer settings are about 7-8ms then there is no way the MIDI will leave your computer go through the synth and come back and play at 7-8ms, the buffer size of your soundcard is one thing and the time the midi takes to travel out of the machine and come back is another thing and those two things adds up to each other.

Through a combination of negative latency on midi tracks and reduce latency when monitoring i can actually get perfectly accurate recordings to the grid, i'm sure if you take some time and get lucky you will figure out how to do it!

The trick is to keep recording the audio and looking if the settings you are dealing with are actually making any difference, sometimes for some reasons some MONITORING options will yield unwanted results, it's a weird thing and sometimes the latency changes or the clock just don't hold on tight for long enough if you keep fiddling with the project, it's a nightmare and definitely one of the weak points on the studio when jamming around with loads of stuff.

I never went through this route but i wonder how it would be if we had an external midi clock that would clock all the stuff and allow negative latency and actually use that as MASTER CLOCK instead of ableton... solving those issues is definitely boring and energy consuming

good luck bro, i feel your pain