Live 10 Screenshot?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
maky355
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by maky355 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:05 pm

Angstrom wrote:I guess we will find out in November.
Could you clarify? Why November? Historical releases or some big show? What?

Regards

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Angstrom » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:17 pm

maky355 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:I guess we will find out in November.
Could you clarify? Why November? Historical releases or some big show? What?

Regards
https://loop.ableton.com/2017/
A Summit for Music Makers
10 – 12 Nov 2017
Funkhaus Berlin

Just a guess, because it's been forever since L9's launch and Loop has been used for product launches before now (Push 2)

maky355
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:10 am

Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by maky355 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:30 am

Angstrom wrote:
maky355 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:I guess we will find out in November.
Could you clarify? Why November? Historical releases or some big show? What?

Regards
https://loop.ableton.com/2017/
A Summit for Music Makers
10 – 12 Nov 2017
Funkhaus Berlin

Just a guess, because it's been forever since L9's launch and Loop has been used for product launches before now (Push 2)
Thanks! It is a good guess imo.

I hope you are right!

hps909
Posts: 233
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:09 am

Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by hps909 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:46 am

Angstrom wrote:They need to do a lot more to the browser than just "collections". I can see that it says something like "No Filter" next to Collections, implying that perhaps there is tag based filtering.
The rest of the browser looks very similar, which is extremely disapointing.

There seems to be no visual re-organisation, it still appears to rely on fake "folders" like we are in 1998.
Folders are a terrible UI metaphor when the resources we are looking for are multi faceted and the userbase is varied.
The folders metaphor presupposes that an un-known content item can be found if the user guesses the correct nested taxonomy correctly and navigates to it without error.

For example: you want a fat deep rhythmic analog synth bass, what folder is it in?
do you look in "sounds/synth rhythmic" and randomly load sounds? or do you look in "sounds/bass"? or in "synth Misc"?
Folders are a terrible UI for resource discovery, navigation and classification. In a folder based system a resource only appears at the bottom of one taxonomic branch. In reality all objects have multiple attributes and each person will use a contextually appropriate subset of those to find the resource "find me that fat bass i made last year"

Resources should be groupable and findable by attributes. This is not just a case of "tagging", it is how people work.
i hate attribute style browsers ..especially pre defined attributes .. because what i call deep is not what other people call deep then you have to have 5 different attributes
. i have my own filing system and folders are perfectly fine for me
macbook pro 2.5 i5 os 10.12 , TC Electronik Konnekt 48, Live 9, Cubase 9, event 20/20, Waldorf Blofeld, roland tb-03, roland Jx-03, korg mikrokontrol, novation nocturn, akai lpd8

sporkles
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by sporkles » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:15 am

Sure, but one doesn't necessarily exclude the other, though? If Ableton's files could simply be made "taggable", the attribute based browsing system could lie on top of the old one, couldn't it?

So, in essence, you could keep organising in folders, and add and remove tags if you wanted to. I agree that one person's "hot" is another person's "lukewarm", but ideally, you should be able to add any keyword you'd like, and then search. I think the real power of attributes is when you add them yourself. You could probably always limit the search to user content, etc.

Personally, I rarely use the browser at all. Maybe for browsing samples every now and then, but usually I just preview sounds to find something that fits, or simply to find something random I wouldn't have thought of.

Angstrom
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Angstrom » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:42 pm

it's a long topic but essentially the existing system is tags, but they are all mutually exclusive at the moment. So in the current user interface methodology a preset which is in "synth keys" can't also be "ambient and evolving" and "..."

But really we need resources to have multiple attributes at the same time. Show me all presets which are "percussive" + "bass" + "synth keys" should be a boolean AND filter.

To address the common idea that "users will never tag stuff", well there are two related classes of data: properties and attributes. Properties are an innate part of the resource. We already have properties of a synth sound "the folder its saved in" and "the name it has" and "the date it was created" and "the author" , "BPM" "time signature" etc. But ... we can't yet filter result lists on these already existing properties (Example query: show me songs I made between 12/12/2015 - 12/12-2016 which are between 80BPM and 95BPM). Those properties already exist as a consequence of us simply making the set and saving it. They are innate.

In addition to properties there are "attributes", these are just like properties but are assigned or attributed by the user. Attributes are what most people think of as "tags", because you can add them. But the adding process can be smarter than you might imagine.

Currently the Live 9 database already stores both properties and attributes. An obvious example, any ID3 tags from an MP3 are already in that databse. It also scans the names we save presets as, such as "hi hat", "high hat", "hihat", "hi-hat" all get mapped to the same meta of an drum called a "high hat".

So, in short the Live browser and database is already handling properties and it is already assigning attributes (although that could be improved by user attribution) and it is already filtering on both of those. But it is severely hampered in that it is using a heirarchic model to display non-hierarchic data. It does not allow us to select items based on multiple properties and attributes.
the reason that's important is : when we look for an unknown object we might only have a few properties and attributes in mind, and that ought to return a varied list for us to reduce further and select from.

ah, as I said .. it's a big topic.

Nasenbluten
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Nasenbluten » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:04 pm

Clip view doesn't resize in Live 9 :)

Image

mr.adl
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by mr.adl » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:49 pm

Nice catch, @Nasenbluten. :D

jestermgee
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by jestermgee » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Oh the features!!!

Can. Not. Wait! for these high end features we have all asked for for years. Now I can search for that special sample I need in my "collections" bucket and finally the MIDI editor will "resize" the info section to show me.... nothing more at the bottom.

yur2die4
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:44 pm

Maybe it is 9.8 haha

Street Spirit
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Street Spirit » Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:15 am

D Day is coming sooon

Stefan Jantschek
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Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:06 am

Nasenbluten wrote:Clip view doesn't resize in Live 9 :)
It`s not only resizing, there are some new midi edit features available:

- Key Range
- Note Length
- Vel Range etc.

It´s now quite obvious that this is a non public beta.

8)

Stefan Jantschek
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Location: Berlin

Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:23 am

Angstrom wrote:
maky355 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:I guess we will find out in November.
Could you clarify? Why November? Historical releases or some big show? What?

Regards
https://loop.ableton.com/2017/
A Summit for Music Makers
10 – 12 Nov 2017
Funkhaus Berlin

Just a guess, because it's been forever since L9's launch and Loop has been used for product launches before now (Push 2)
Since V.8 "experiences", new releases from Ableton are depending much more on beta test results than on upcoming "events".
I appreciate that.

*S.

antic604
Posts: 580
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by antic604 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:25 pm

Stefan Jantschek wrote:
Nasenbluten wrote:Clip view doesn't resize in Live 9 :)
It`s not only resizing, there are some new midi edit features available:

- Key Range
- Note Length
- Vel Range etc.

It´s now quite obvious that this is a non public beta.

8)
Where are you seeing those? I can't see any added stuff compared to 9.7

Stefan Jantschek
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Live 10 Screenshot?

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:28 pm

antic604 wrote:
Stefan Jantschek wrote:
Nasenbluten wrote:Clip view doesn't resize in Live 9 :)
It`s not only resizing, there are some new midi edit features available:

- Key Range
- Note Length
- Vel Range etc.

It´s now quite obvious that this is a non public beta.

8)
Where are you seeing those? I can't see any added stuff compared to 9.7
You`re right, there`s nothing visible here.
But now empty space below Midi Editor and not above.
What sense could that make?
Redesign without any function?
Yeah - maybe...

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