DAW Dynamic Controller

[Antigone]

I wonder if a truly "dynamic" controller exists.

Note that I've never used stuff like Mackie Control hardware so I don't know all the possibilities.

I would like to click on a specific track in my session view.
The name of the track would be displayed on the controller, and I could directly adjust volume / pan / etc with actual (motorized ? led-backligthen ?) buttons.

Killer feature would be to assign other buttons of my controller to generic effects (compressor rate, reverb time, etc).
When I click on another track, the controller would know and display what are those effects.

Example :

I have a mixing session with 50 tracks (mostly grouped, but that's not the point)

I click on my Voice track. Trackname is displayed. Volume / Track / Returns / ... buttons are updated on my controller.
One of the "dynamic" button displays "reverb/dry_wet" with correct value, because I've assigned it on this particular track.
All the others dynamic buttons are off, because not assigned.

After some adjustments, I then click on my Kick track. Trackname is updated as long as volume etc buttons.
This time, the first "dynamic" button displays "gate/threshold" with correct value
The second displays "compressor/rate" with correct value

... And so on

- Bonus feature would be a special visualisation for EQ, if set on the track
- SuperBonus feature would be discovering / assining parameters on the fly
- Oh, and I don't need "launch" squared buttons, I would use it for mixing, not launch samples.

Does such a controller exists ? Do you know any references ? Should I build one ?

Thanks !

[jestermgee]

Yep

Mackie MCU (or similar running the MCU protocol).

I have one and this is how it works though one thing is it does not really have "mappable" controls for free assignment, everything is automajically mapped but you can switch between track/daw control and plugin control so you can get your assigned controls of a VST or an ableton plugin device to appear on the controller. Press "flip" and instead of using the small (shitty) encoders you can use the long accurate faders for automation.

Push is also an option that would offer almost everything you have asked and THEN you also have the "User" mode where you can map things to things.

The new Komplete Kontrol MK2 is another that can do all of this and has the ability to freely map things in "Midi Mode"

So there is a lot one can do these days with control surfaces.

[Shift Gorden]

Definitely sounds similar to Push (apart from the motorized part).

I do love using Push to control my compressors...and sample editing.

I'm gonna check out the Mackie MCU. Sounds cool.

[Shift Gorden]

Oh. That Mackie looks dreamy. Dang it jestermgee - you've done me.

So, depending where you are on the page, the faders will automatically adjust? Did you get any of the expansion modules? Man, I never knew such a thing existed! So excited!

[login]

Can be done insome ways, Push does it to an extent. ALl the control is Dynamic and it shows all the names and values of tracks and parameters. It also displays VU meters for volume.

[jestermgee]

The MCU is my best piece of gear, i've had it for close to 10 years now and it's still perfect in how it works. I have had to service the LCD backlight and replace it, and I have also had something hit a fader and break it but was able to dismantle it and repair it. Great thing is you can replace individual parts like faders very easy and they aren't massive costs.

The cost is high now days with so many other products on the market. There are also many knockoff controllers that use the MCU protocol but are not Mackie, behringer BCF2000 for instance which for the cost is OK and I owned one before the MCU but it's missing a lot of features and is... cheap in every sense of the word.

I don't have any expansions since they cost huge $$$ and unless you have huge numbers of tracks, the 8 faders are fine since you can page through your channels and the faders move to the new positions.

The encoders on the MCU are shit tho, they are dented and click with each increment. They have a velocity function which causes pots to move more the harder you twist but I find that clunky. I use to just press the Flip button so I could use the fader for automating devices.

If you like hands on mixer control, the MCU is a good piece of gear, but you can do everything it can do on Push, it's just faders are so nice for volume especially when you want to duck a sound quickly or adjust several sounds all at once.

[Antigone]

Thank you everyone for your answers !

So if I get it correctly, the MCU is maybe what I need... I've searched for video examples with MCU and Ableton Live on youtube, but didn't really find anything really huge.

I've also looked into Push before opening this thread, but I'm really concerned about having to manually "page" throw my session using arrow buttons.

I really want my controller to be updated when I select a track with my mouse - is the MCU / Push able to do this ?

Thanks again !

Bonus question : in your opinion, do you think it's a waste of space / money ? I've used Ableton Live for years and years now, and I've been doing okay with my mouse and keyboard so far.

[Stromkraft]

I really want my controller to be updated when I select a track with my mouse - is the MCU / Push able to do this ?

Yes for the Push and I'd assume the MCU as well, not knowing the latter at all.

[jestermgee]

Push follows wherever you are. This is useful but sometimes a pain when you wish to select a track to edit but want push to stay where it was. I think it can be locked to a track tho.

MCU is independant of your on screen view because it's an 8 channel controller. It shows you info from 8 channels at once and if you select a channel (using mouse or controller) you can then switch to functions for that track only (device control, sends, input/output selection etc).

Things to keep in mind between the 2 devices:

Push
- Ableton only. It can be used as a very basic MIDI device in other DAWs but the smarts only work in Ableton
- It's a full ableton controller. It can get into parts of Live that no other controller can.
- It's an instrument and browser as well as controller.
- It's really designed to help in the creative stages of getting ideas down.

MCU
- MCU is a control standard that existed even before Live that works with ANY Daw. I even use it in Sony Vegas and it's awesome there to.
- MCU is included as support with almost any DAW
- It doesn't have as tight integration as a dedicated DAW controller
- It's more useful in the mixing/editing stage to adjust levels and automate things

The reason I still have both (where I have bought and sold many other devices) is they have uses in different stages of the process and I have aquired my tools over 2 decades so it's been well spread out.

[Stromkraft]

MCU is independant of your on screen view because it's an 8 channel controller. It shows you info from 8 channels at once and if you select a channel (using mouse or controller) you can then switch to functions for that track only (device control, sends, input/output selection etc).

You're really talking about how the MCU Pro and XT Pro works here and not about how the control standard works.

MCU
- MCU is a control standard that existed even before Live that works with ANY Daw. I even use it in Sony Vegas and it's awesome there to.
- MCU is included as support with almost any DAW
- It doesn't have as tight integration as a dedicated DAW controller

While that may be true, my Alphatrack connects with the MCU control standard to Live and updates itself when I select a track in any other way. So moving with the selection would seem to be part of some involved standard.

[jestermgee]

You're really talking about how the MCU Pro and XT Pro works here and not about how the control standard works.

Yes, because I don't know exactly (not really care) how the actual standard works...

While that may be true, my Alphatrack connects with the MCU control standard to Live and updates itself when I select a track in any other way. So moving with the selection would seem to be part of some involved standard.

I use to own an alphatrack which is one of the reasons I upgraded to a full Mackie MCU. Itn will obviously display what track is selected because it is just a single fader unit. Very useful to edit a single track at a time.

Don't forget that although the MCU protocol is a standard (which paved the way for intelligent controllers we have today), DAWs can implement how it works with them in the control scripts. I use to use a modified version of the Mackie MCU script to fix an issue with how Ableton set the level display for tracks. There were only 3 of us asking for it to be fixed and eventually it was (thanks Ableton) so now I can just use the standard scripts.

[Stromkraft]

I use to own an alphatrack which is one of the reasons I upgraded to a full Mackie MCU. Itn will obviously display what track is selected because it is just a single fader unit. …

That's not the interesting part, rather it is that as this is possible it wouldn't be unfathomable that the protocol, the DAW modifications or whatever allows for switching the MCU with more channels, like for instance when selecting track 9, switch from 1-8 to 9-16 instead. I realize there may be design considerations and practical issues that prohibits switching, but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility at least.

[login]

Check this: http://www.nativekontrol.com/DDC.html

It is for making scripts to fit any controller, it has limitations but can take you far.