Solved: Live has made a very serious error

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nowtime
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Solved: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:55 am

All things relative.

I took a week off from final mixing my album, ready to master the tracks. I took one last listen playing renders in Quicktime and noticed a mistake that I thought I had fixed. Playing back my Live set showed the mistake WAS fixed (an automated envelope on Utility gain).

Just to make sure I checked the timestamp of the date the set was last modified and it was just one minute before the timestamp of the render, so no user error. This is surely the worst thing I've ever seen Live do and I'm a bit shocked because I finished and released another album a month ago and am concerned for my work. There was one song that felt a bit off but I let it go at the time, after so many edits (that I trust Live is rendering!). Using 9.7.1 is out of date but my OS is the latest of the Sierra 10.12.6, and it should work.

Is this possible?
Last edited by nowtime on Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

antic604
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by antic604 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:58 am

nowtime wrote:This is surely the worst thing I've ever seen Live do
Really? Overreacting much? It's obviously your duty to listen to the renders to make sure they're fine. Considering how complex today's projects can get with 3rd party VSTs, hardware and automation such things can and will happen, in any DAW not just Live.

Also, isn't it possible that you added that automation to Utility, saved the project, then - intentionally or not - changed something, rendered and NOT saved the project? User errors happen.

Stromkraft
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:29 am

nowtime wrote: Just to make sure I checked the timestamp of the date the set was last modified and it was just one minute before the timestamp of the render, so no user error.
An assumption on your part.
nowtime wrote: Is this possible?
You proved to yourself that it is possible to you. It's not possible for me. Chances are you don't know exporting as well as you think you do, so your expectations are skewed. One thing to realize is that you need to use "Back to Arrangement" in order for the export to be based on the Arrangement only. It's possible to mix Session with Arrangement. This could be a source for creating this discrepancy you're having.

Another more likely source, is that you mixed up the exported files somehow. As a producer, the responsibility is always yours. If we encounter bugs and errors we report them after having tried to reproduce them.
Make some music!

nowtime
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:40 pm

antic604 wrote:
nowtime wrote:This is surely the worst thing I've ever seen Live do
Really? Overreacting much? It's obviously your duty to listen to the renders to make sure they're fine. Considering how complex today's projects can get with 3rd party VSTs, hardware and automation such things can and will happen, in any DAW not just Live.

Also, isn't it possible that you added that automation to Utility, saved the project, then - intentionally or not - changed something, rendered and NOT saved the project? User errors happen.
i could see that if I was using hardware perhaps, but this is all in the box.

And no. I sequentially number my sets as I edit them and the render has the same name as the set. I am OCD about saving and naming incrementally.

nowtime
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:44 pm

Stromkraft wrote: One thing to realize is that you need to use "Back to Arrangement" in order for the export to be based on the Arrangement only. It's possible to mix Session with Arrangement. This could be a source for creating this discrepancy you're having.

Another more likely source, is that you mixed up the exported files somehow. As a producer, the responsibility is always yours. If we encounter bugs and errors we report them after having tried to reproduce them.
I will check the BTA light. I am not using session view these days, and I am super-careful, but this is possible. Unlikely I mixed up the exported files, as I name and number each set incrementally and the render mirrors this. And yes I am in touch with Ableton.

nowtime
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:14 am

Well it did it again, BTA light was not lit, it seems to be only this single automation envelope that is not printing. The set sounds correct and the render is wrong.

Confounding!

Odd thing is the timestamp of the modified .als is now 3:04 where last night it was 3:07. Apple!

nowtime
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:54 am

OK, I think I've figured out what's happening.

Live is mad at me, jealous, because this was to be my last track, after 12 years, editing and mixing in Live before I move that task to Studio One while I just use Live for recording.

I've been ungrateful and pissy with Live lately and she's now reminding me to remember the good times and all her vast and wondrous qualities. To say farewell with an open heart.

nowtime
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Re: Live has made a very serious error

Post by nowtime » Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:48 am

Solved. The render was different from playback because when exporting, Live is triggering a midi note on an un-muted track that is just one long sample from measure 1 and is NOT audible when I play the set from the songs' start time. So the song is rendering as if that track is starting from measure one. bug or feature I wonder... perhaps it is because I copied over a clip from session view whose launch mode is set to toggle.

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