Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

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Sintek
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Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:35 pm

As above I'm searching by time for a simple way to prelisten a sound on my headphones before to write it in a clip that's already playing live. So far, my english is very bad, so I'll try to do a simple example.
A drum rack channel with "tot" sounds that outs to master channel. I created a clip with some sounds that are playing live. Now, I want to add some sounds to my loop clip, but I want to choose what sound I'll write on it. The problem: if I play that additional sound in my midi controller (even before to write it) the sound, obviously, outs to the master. Well, I want that this sound I "try" before to write in the clip is listened ONLY on my headphones before to add it in the clip. Can't really find a routing way to do that. Thanks to everybody and a have a great day!!

Stromkraft
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Sintek wrote:As above I'm searching by time for a simple way to prelisten a sound on my headphones before to write it in a clip that's already playing live. So far, my english is very bad, so I'll try to do a simple example.
A drum rack channel with "tot" sounds that outs to master channel. I created a clip with some sounds that are playing live. Now, I want to add some sounds to my loop clip, but I want to choose what sound I'll write on it. The problem: if I play that additional sound in my midi controller (even before to write it) the sound, obviously, outs to the master. Well, I want that this sound I "try" before to write in the clip is listened ONLY on my headphones before to add it in the clip. Can't really find a routing way to do that. Thanks to everybody and a have a great day!!
Extract the pads/chains and use the solo/preview buttons routed to your headhones output. If you want to use one single clip, then make new empty pads in the original and set the extracted tracks to listen on the original.

What this technique means is that you are separating playing the clip from the individual sounds connected to it. This also works with multi-output plug-ins.
Make some music!

Sintek
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:48 pm

Extract the pads/chains and use the solo/preview buttons routed to your headhones output. If you want to use one single clip, then make new empty pads in the original and set the extracted tracks to listen on the original.

What this technique means is that you are separating playing the clip from the individual sounds connected to it. This also works with multi-output plug-ins.
Thanks for your answer!! Btw, I really think I didn't get you... What you mean of Extract Everything? And external instruments didn't send midi to the Drum Rack. Sorry, but I think I lost something. Did you mean create a different channel for single each drum pad?

Stromkraft
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:58 pm

Sintek wrote:
Extract the pads/chains and use the solo/preview buttons routed to your headhones output. If you want to use one single clip, then make new empty pads in the original and set the extracted tracks to listen on the original.

What this technique means is that you are separating playing the clip from the individual sounds connected to it. This also works with multi-output plug-ins.
Thanks for your answer!! Btw, I really think I didn't get you... What you mean of Extract Everything? And external instruments didn't send midi to the Drum Rack. Sorry, but I think I lost something. Did you mean create a different channel for single each drum pad?
Seek and learn from the book: 18.8.1 Extracting Chains (Live 9 Official manual). This will create a separate and coupled track where the MIDI flows (optionally) from the drum rack track (DRT) clip to the extracted track with External Instrument and back to the DRT and multi-output instrument and the specific audio tapped by External Instrument will go to the extracted track. If this is not a multi-out there will be an instrument, like Simpler, in the extracted track.

Sometimes it doesn't work as expected, like with some packs, and you will have to do it manually by drag and drop and setting up the I/O yourself , but 90% of the time it does.
Make some music!

Sintek
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:30 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Sintek wrote:
Extract the pads/chains and use the solo/preview buttons routed to your headhones output. If you want to use one single clip, then make new empty pads in the original and set the extracted tracks to listen on the original.

What this technique means is that you are separating playing the clip from the individual sounds connected to it. This also works with multi-output plug-ins.
Thanks for your answer!! Btw, I really think I didn't get you... What you mean of Extract Everything? And external instruments didn't send midi to the Drum Rack. Sorry, but I think I lost something. Did you mean create a different channel for single each drum pad?
Seek and learn from the book: 18.8.1 Extracting Chains (Live 9 Official manual). This will create a separate and coupled track where the MIDI flows (optionally) from the drum rack track (DRT) clip to the extracted track with External Instrument and back to the DRT and multi-output instrument and the specific audio tapped by External Instrument will go to the extracted track. If this is not a multi-out there will be an instrument, like Simpler, in the extracted track.

Sometimes it doesn't work as expected, like with some packs, and you will have to do it manually by drag and drop and setting up the I/O yourself , but 90% of the time it does.
Thanks for your answer!!! But this way I have a real lot of channels I have to set armed on. So far, the original drum rack track is only a "chainset master" so, considering that it hasn't an instrument on it, even if i record midis in the original channel from the extracted tracks, I have no sound on it. I have to write separate clips for every channel/sound i have. Am I wrong?
And anyway, for me, It's quite weird and really not suitable for multiple instruments, midi controllers and midi outputs devices to control a strong and full live set. This way complicates a lot a thing that should be (and could be) muuuch more easier to do, right? Any suggestion on how to change directly in the original drum rack channel any cue/prelisten output of the sounds from the chain? Thanks again!!

[jur]
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by [jur] » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:16 pm

Here's a solution, maybe not perfect but...

You should use always the same drum rack cell to try out your sounds, and then afterward move it to another cell.

Let's call this cell (or chain) "Preview".
Create an audio track (lets call it "to Headphones"),
set its input monitoring to your drum rack > drum rack "Preview" pre-FX
Set this "to Headphones" audio track input monitoring to IN
Mute your "Preview" chain

Now when you play a sound in this Preview chain, the sound is output from your "to Headphones" track.
You can either directly route this track to the physical headphones output of your sound card, or toggle the Solo/Cue option to cue.
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Sintek
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:49 pm

[jur] wrote:Here's a solution, maybe not perfect but...

You should use always the same drum rack cell to try out your sounds, and then afterward move it to another cell.

Let's call this cell (or chain) "Preview".
Create an audio track (lets call it "to Headphones"),
set its input monitoring to your drum rack > drum rack "Preview" pre-FX
Set this "to Headphones" audio track input monitoring to IN
Mute your "Preview" chain

Now when you play a sound in this Preview chain, the sound is output from your "to Headphones" track.
You can either directly route this track to the physical headphones output of your sound card, or toggle the Solo/Cue option to cue.
Hey thanks for your answer. This way doesn't work at all. I tried it times ago but the problem is that, obviously, I can't route an audio track (to Headphone) to the "preview" chain..That's because preview..having no sound on it. Every audio track needs to be routed to a track (or cell) that can or could contain audio. Right?

[jur]
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by [jur] » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:41 pm

It works, I've tried before writing this.
Follow the described steps, and if it still doesn't work I'll send you an .als
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Stromkraft
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:07 am

Sintek wrote:But this way I have a real lot of channels I have to set armed on. So far, the original drum rack track is only a "chainset master" so, considering that it hasn't an instrument on it, even if i record midis in the original channel from the extracted tracks, I have no sound on it. I have to write separate clips for every channel/sound i have. Am I wrong?!
Yes, you're partly wrong and I already addressed this concern of yours. I think I wrote to set monitor to "in" on those extracted tracks? Then you can use just a clip in the mother rack track.

However, if the device itself had to move to the extracted track, like if it's Simpler for instance, then you will not have automation for that in the source clip.

Personally, I enjoy using a specific track per drum voice as I can use individual clip settings per drum voice. Which is everything. I have the same problem of separation of source clip and automation to the instrument though as I often have a VST in the mother rack track, but I just put the automation where the instrument is, so easily solved.

It's you who asked for ways to preview multiple drum voices, so I don't understand your concern here. This might be the price you need to pay. There could also be an elegant workaround. I just don't know it.
Make some music!

Sintek
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:15 am

[jur] wrote:It works, I've tried before writing this.
Follow the described steps, and if it still doesn't work I'll send you an .als
Damn!! So I probably miss something!! I tried again but preview still doesn't appear in the audio track I created. Maybe yes, if you could attach an .als file I understand better. Something I miss is, as I wrote above, something I don't get it 'cause of my bad english. Thanks in advance!!

Sintek
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:20 am

Stromkraft wrote:
Sintek wrote:But this way I have a real lot of channels I have to set armed on. So far, the original drum rack track is only a "chainset master" so, considering that it hasn't an instrument on it, even if i record midis in the original channel from the extracted tracks, I have no sound on it. I have to write separate clips for every channel/sound i have. Am I wrong?!
Yes, you're partly wrong and I already addressed this concern of yours. I think I wrote to set monitor to "in" on those extracted tracks? Then you can use just a clip in the mother rack track.

However, if the device itself had to move to the extracted track, like if it's Simpler for instance, then you will not have automation for that in the source clip.

Personally, I enjoy using a specific track per drum voice as I can use individual clip settings per drum voice. Which is everything. I have the same problem of separation of source clip and automation to the instrument though as I often have a VST in the mother rack track, but I just put the automation where the instrument is, so easily solved.

It's you who asked for ways to preview multiple drum voices, so I don't understand your concern here. This might be the price you need to pay. There could also be an elegant workaround. I just don't know it.
Hey, thanks for your reply. As I answered to [jur] maybe I miss something. My bad english comprension makes everything much hard to understand. I would be grateful if you too can attach an .als file to see better what you mean so. Thanks in advance!!

Stromkraft
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:11 am

Sintek wrote:I would be grateful if you too can attach an .als file to see better what you mean so. Thanks in advance!!
Here's a few images from my default template illustrating this:

1. The extracted tracks and the "source" drum rack.

Note the I/O settings:

Image

Generally "PostFX" is preferred as that will pick up any MIDI effects you might have on the track. I'm sending all drum tracks to a drum buss, but you don't have to do that.

2. An extracted track with External Instrument.

Note that the External Instrument can be replaced with any other track local instrument, like Simpler or what not.
The MIDI flows from the mother Drum Rack Track (MDR) to this extracted track and back to a multi-output instrument in MDR (here it's Softube Heartbeat) and audio flows right back to here. It's quite neat. Also check out the MDR image below.
Image

3. Here's the Mother Drum Rack Track (MDR).

I've added pads/chains sending out the proper MIDI notes by adding External Instrument to one pad, then deleting the former. Then I just duplicated this "empty" pad. I also placed a multi-output plug-in on a muted pad I don't use, rather than use "All Notes".

Any automation of the instrument will have to go into this track.
Image

There's nothing stopping you from using multiple plug-ins in the MDR and you can mix extracted tracks listening to the clips from the MDR with track local clips. You could also use monitor set to "auto" and arm tracks, if that suits your method better. To me this methodology means total freedom. The only drawback is when I need to record automation, which can be tricky sometimes. These days I don't even think about it. I just do it.

If you want you can also group all these tracks visually while keeping the I/O settings, i e not send and audio to the group track.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Make some music!

Sintek
Posts: 19
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Sintek » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:31 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Sintek wrote:I would be grateful if you too can attach an .als file to see better what you mean so. Thanks in advance!!
Here's a few images from my default template illustrating this:

1. The extracted tracks and the "source" drum rack.

Note the I/O settings:

Image

Generally "PostFX" is preferred as that will pick up any MIDI effects you might have on the track. I'm sending all drum tracks to a drum buss, but you don't have to do that.

2. An extracted track with External Instrument.

Note that the External Instrument can be replaced with any other track local instrument, like Simpler or what not.
The MIDI flows from the mother Drum Rack Track (MDR) to this extracted track and back to a multi-output instrument in MDR (here it's Softube Heartbeat) and audio flows right back to here. It's quite neat. Also check out the MDR image below.
Image

3. Here's the Mother Drum Rack Track (MDR).

I've added pads/chains sending out the proper MIDI notes by adding External Instrument to one pad, then deleting the former. The I just duplicated this "empty" pad. I also placed a multi-output plug-in on a muted pad I don't use, rather than use "All Notes".

Any automation of the instrument will have to go into this track.
Image

There's nothing stopping you from using multiple plug-ins in the MDR and you can mix extracted tracks listening to the clips from the MDR with track local clips. You could also use monitor set to "auto" and arm tracks, if that suits your method better. To me this methodology means total freedom. The only drawback is when I need to record automation, which can be tricky sometimes. These days I don't even think about it. I just do it.

If you want you can also group all these tracks visually while keeping the I/O settings, i e not send and audio to the group track.
Ok i got it. Now I got the answer. It doesn't work with Simple, as you said. With Kontakt for example yes.

Stromkraft
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Re: Headphone only sound preview in a drum rack

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:59 pm

Sintek wrote: Ok i got it. Now I got the answer. It doesn't work with Simple, as you said. With Kontakt for example yes.
Of course it works with Simpler, or any other instrument. The only difference is that with a local instrument (in the extracted track), the MIDI flows from the MDR to the extracted instrument track and nothing flows back to the MDR. Any automation needs to be recorded there in the extracted track in its own clip (A "dummy clip").
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