10 is announced!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
theophilus
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by theophilus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:17 pm

i was looking at automation delay compensation - it isn't fixed for live 10, apparently, or the visual indicators (not too surprising, but sad). i didn't test audio compensation (yet) but that used to work fine, it was just the automation.
but i do find the results encouraging for other reasons.

here's my test config:

- single track, with a 4/4 beat in it
- Cableguys volumeshaper set to duck all but the first beat. VolumeShaper is great, because it shows a beat-synced view of the waveform. So after this volumeshaper, only the first beat should come through.
- Put 4-5 Liquidsonics Reverberate in a row, set to 8192 latency (for the longest latency I can get). 4 of them is around 170ms, about 1.5 beats or so. (substitute your own long-latency device).
- Put another volumeshaper after it. You'll see that it finds the single drum hit halfway through beat 2, way off where it should be. And if you copy the config from the one before, you won't get any output at all.

So it works just like Live 9. Why is this encouraging? Because, bizarrely, the M4L devices appear to be in sync somehow, or maybe it's something different about how they work?

- Instead of the second VolumeShaper, put a Shaper, followed by a Utility. Set the shaper to rate = 1, and set it up like volumeshaper so it only allows the first beat through. Set the offset to -100% (which may be a bug), and map it to the utility gain. This time, it works perfectly, and lets the first beat through properly (although it doesn't show what it's doing; another volumeshaper after, or in the master channel, shows it's still way off where Live thinks the beat is). So there is a workaround with built-in Live objects now.

I'm guessing this would work for mapping to the filters in AutoFilter as well - or maybe there should be an explicit just 'Filter' object for use this way.

It's something... I haven't tested this thoroughly, but this is the #1 thing I'd do with it anyways, so it's useful...

theophilus
Posts: 520
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by theophilus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:19 pm

silversurfer60 wrote:M4Live is now integrated in the Suite, so less problems... but not in Live Standard.

That means, if I upgrade from Live9 standard to Live10 standard, my M4live, which I purchased years ago separately, makes the same problems as always.

In other words: Live Suite Users have no problems for the future to use M4live and the Live Standard Users with a separately
bought M4Live are second-class users.

Thats nice, thank you Ableton.
i don't know if that's true yet.. let's wait and see.

for the 8->9 transition, there was a new M4L version (i think max 5->6 maybe?), and that's when it was first included with suite. But owners of 8 who didn't want everything from 9 could upgrade to 9 standard, and afaik they got all the new M4L features still if they already have M4L. I'd expect it to work the same thing time.

TheCoil
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by TheCoil » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:42 pm

theophilus wrote:i was looking at automation delay compensation - it isn't fixed for live 10, apparently, or the visual indicators (not too surprising, but sad).

It's baffling that they wouldn't have fixed this very fundamental problem with the program's architecture.

pocketcalc
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Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:35 am

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by pocketcalc » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:46 pm

visibility of all automation lanes is now toggled via the Automation Mode button or the "A" key.
Talk about slow development. Of course that finally having stuff like this is a relief, but that should have been added years ago in a point release. How many more lines of code Live needed to hide all automation? Looks like the people in charge of user experience and interface design at Ableton are afraid of changing "The Ableton Workflow". Or maybe it is a strategy to keep people expecting easy-to-add features, and slowly add them for a price? Or maybe the codebase is still old and touchy, prone to break? It really bugs me. Live 9 was released 4 years ago and that's all for live 10? New devices are boring, even when they are the coolest, like these, because there are a million third party plugins available.

Anyway, I’m going to pre order it because yeah, being able to do those little things that every other daw was doing 10 years is great.

The main missing features for me are:

Comping/take management.
Audio editing overall, including being able to edit audio inside clips.
Better scoring tools, timecode, video handling, markers etc.

Hope they add some of these on a point release.

garyboozy
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by garyboozy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:47 pm

silversurfer, I might be wrong here but...

if you upgrade your Live standard 9 to standard 10, i'd imagine Live 10's built-in Max will be licensed for you, as you're a Max for Live license holder. Max for Live is built in to all versions – Intro, Standard & Suite. it's your licenses that determine what bits are unlocked.

afaik, your individual Max for Live license is the same as an individual Operator/Sampler license, which you don't have to pay to upgrade, and your license should 'unlock' the integrated Max.
Last edited by garyboozy on Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pete202
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:30 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Pete202 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:49 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Pete202 wrote:
Tarekith wrote:
• Max is now bundled in Live, and no longer requires an external installation.
So, is a Java installation still required for M4L to work?
It isn't already now in Live 9. I forgot which recent version of MFL dropped this as a (hidden) requirement, but it has been dropped.
Thanks for the clarification. :-)

Pete202
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Pete202 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:53 pm

ianedge wrote:anyone else think the £183 upgrade price is a bit steep?
Comes up as £199 for me :(

theophilus
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:54 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by theophilus » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:25 pm

TheCoil wrote:
theophilus wrote:i was looking at automation delay compensation - it isn't fixed for live 10, apparently, or the visual indicators (not too surprising, but sad).

It's baffling that they wouldn't have fixed this very fundamental problem with the program's architecture.
I agree... but there's also a way to get around it for beat-synced effects now, at least.

yur2die4
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:49 pm

Editing multiple clips in one view is actually quite promising.

I think it's a very clear incremental step towards recording and editing various other kinds of polyphonic input methods.

If they get that functioning well, then it is also a pretty clear path towards vst3 support.

TheCoil
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:12 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by TheCoil » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:21 pm

theophilus wrote:
TheCoil wrote:
theophilus wrote:i was looking at automation delay compensation - it isn't fixed for live 10, apparently, or the visual indicators (not too surprising, but sad).

It's baffling that they wouldn't have fixed this very fundamental problem with the program's architecture.
I agree... but there's also a way to get around it for beat-synced effects now, at least.
It just seems unfortunate that we should be cobbling together workarounds for something that affects the quality of sound for such a large part of the music I make (and probably plenty of others too).

This aspect of Ableton is the only thing that ever makes me question whether I should move to a different DAW.

All the fun new features that get added with each new release are shiny and eye-catching but the basic program needs to be putting out the best quality sound, on par with every other DAW before we need to worry about MPE and nested groups and improved midi editing, etc.

SvenH
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by SvenH » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:26 pm

There seems to be a lot to like in this upgrade! Groups within groups, more sleek GUI, workflow enhancements,... :D

locojohn
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by locojohn » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:46 pm

I wonder if rendering to disk performance has been improved in Live 10. I couldn't find anything about it in the release notes. Maybe someone could render a bigger project with many tracks/effects and compare Live 9 and Live 10 in this regard?

Andrejs
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Myattmode
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Myattmode » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:37 pm

Are lag issues resolved in Live 10?

Soul's Alien
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Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Soul's Alien » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:44 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Soul's Alien wrote:Hi Everyone,

I always wanted to use Push 2 while Ableton is rewired slave mode into Pro Tools or Cubase, but does not work at all. It's as if Push doesn't recognize that Ableton is running.

Will it works under the new Ableton 10? Will I be able to use Ableton with Push within a master daw?

Cheers
If you read the thread or look at the release notes Ableton published you will see that there are apparently improvements in the way Push behaves when Live is in rewire slave mode. So far everyone who has posted who has the beta is incapable for various reasons of testing how much has been improved. Hopefully one of us folks that are gnawing at the bit to see if for instance you can use the Drum Rack sequencer in Push while Live 10 is a rewire slave to DAWs like Pro Tools, Cubase DP9, Logic etc. gets a copy of the beta soon as we can verify that Live 10 is capable of using advanced Push features in Live while Live is a rewire slave.
Thank you for your reply however I don’t see my answer nowhere. I have been asking the same questions all over the place but not confirmation.
Hopefully someone come up with some further details about Ableton/PUSH on rewire-slave mode.

Thank you

bigmuz7
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:31 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by bigmuz7 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:07 pm

Sorry but ... I cant be arsed to read 11 pages of fan boi stuff VST3 support... yes or no yet ?

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