10 is announced!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
nowtime
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:24 pm
Location: Homefree

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by nowtime » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:21 am

[jur] wrote:
antic604 wrote:So how are you finding the new global show/hide automation toggle?

Personally, I find it being a step back. In my music, I don't have a lot of tracks - typically 20-30 - but almost each of them has several lines of automation: sometimes 1, sometimes 10. In Live 9 I could have most tracks collapsed to 1-unit size, 2-3 expanded so that I can see the waveform / MIDI notes and one completely expanded with automation visible. Now, in Live 10 Beta that's not possible, because once the global show automation toggle is on, it shows all automation lanes for all tracks taller than 1 unit. Obviously one can hide some of the lines, by clicking 'x', but then when you want it back you need to right-click, select 'show all automation lanes', hide the ones you don't want, etc.

I think the per-track hide/show automation toggle should be brought back (global toggle can stay, I'd keep it on).
Don't forget to bring this to the beta forum, please. I'm also on the grumpy side about this.
This is a very important topic, and it's worth discussing it.
That is indeed going backwards in ease-of-use.

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:47 am

Got in on the beta. Opened up Live 10 in rewire slave mode, was able to load one of the three??? drum racks it could see?? and play the drum editor in Push 2.
Tried loading the Wave table synth into another Live track and it cashed Digital Performer..

Pretty crazy though that Ableton are able to and working on implementing Live being able to access Push 2 in slave mode, but cannot get Max 4 Live to work....
Of the two IMO it would figure that sending controller messages to two different DAWs in rewire mode would be more likely to cause stability issues than embedded M4L...

Oh and yes, this is awesome if the bugs get worked out! Maschine pretty much is getting put to the wayside compared to the capabilities that Live as a drum machine has for any DAW.
I really didn't work that much with Live rewired before because of how much functionality in Push gets lost, but if they nail this bugs wise, then Live is always useful even when working in other DAWs.

bubbleandsquawk
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:59 am

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by bubbleandsquawk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 am

Stromkraft wrote: I take this you mean is Rewire slave mode? Because I never ever noticed this running in sync to an external sequencer or another machine running Live.

Speaking of external sync, Rewire is not the only way these days to route internal audio. Therefore, if one plans to run Live in tandem with another DAW and Rewire prevent MFL, plug-ins and hardware controllers, one would be well advised to explore the alternatives.
Yeah, for sure there are ways to route audio, but getting two different DAWs to sync is another matter. I've figured out how to do it via the mac IAC driver for now, it's not rock solid, but it should be alright for my needs. Do you know of any other ways to sync DAWs?

bubbleandsquawk
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:59 am

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by bubbleandsquawk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:32 am

Machinesworking wrote:Got in on the beta. Opened up Live 10 in rewire slave mode, was able to load one of the three??? drum racks it could see?? and play the drum editor in Push 2.
Tried loading the Wave table synth into another Live track and it cashed Digital Performer..

Pretty crazy though that Ableton are able to and working on implementing Live being able to access Push 2 in slave mode, but cannot get Max 4 Live to work....
Of the two IMO it would figure that sending controller messages to two different DAWs in rewire mode would be more likely to cause stability issues than embedded M4L...

Oh and yes, this is awesome if the bugs get worked out! Maschine pretty much is getting put to the wayside compared to the capabilities that Live as a drum machine has for any DAW.
I really didn't work that much with Live rewired before because of how much functionality in Push gets lost, but if they nail this bugs wise, then Live is always useful even when working in other DAWs.
This sounds promising!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:55 am

bubbleandsquawk wrote:
I've figured out how to do it via the mac IAC driver for now…
Do you know of any other ways to sync DAWs?
I've used the internal MIDI (IAC) for syncing Live to Traktor, but no proper DAW as I don't need any other. There are also a number of the soft-MIDI outing apps out there.

Likely it could be a good idea to sync both apps to the same external hardware MIDI clock, if possible. That's one of the better ways to sync a machine park anyway. MIDI jitter can be a real problem, so a dedicated MIDI clock unit is nice to have.
Make some music!

gg_bristol
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:19 am

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by gg_bristol » Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 pm

Looking at this now in Live 10, unfortunately it seems that this restriction still exists.

Make it go away! :D
gg_bristol wrote:Have we finally got more than 128 automatable parameters in Live 10?? :o

Rivanni
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Rivanni » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:33 pm

antic604 wrote:
[jur] wrote:
antic604 wrote:So how are you finding the new global show/hide automation toggle?

Personally, I find it being a step back. In my music, I don't have a lot of tracks - typically 20-30 - but almost each of them has several lines of automation: sometimes 1, sometimes 10. In Live 9 I could have most tracks collapsed to 1-unit size, 2-3 expanded so that I can see the waveform / MIDI notes and one completely expanded with automation visible. Now, in Live 10 Beta that's not possible, because once the global show automation toggle is on, it shows all automation lanes for all tracks taller than 1 unit. Obviously one can hide some of the lines, by clicking 'x', but then when you want it back you need to right-click, select 'show all automation lanes', hide the ones you don't want, etc.

I think the per-track hide/show automation toggle should be brought back (global toggle can stay, I'd keep it on).
Don't forget to bring this to the beta forum, please. I'm also on the grumpy side about this.
This is a very important topic, and it's worth discussing it.
I did yesterday, but noone upvoted it yet :(
https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... eedc431b47

I really want to but the site is still down.

I also like to see a button added to show all automation or that indicates that a track has hidden automation. When you click the minus button to remove the automation lane you only can see if the track had automation by looking in the dropdown list. The you have to add them one by one. I'd rather have the arrow that expands the automation lanes in Live 9 always visible so that it can also be used to expand al hidden automation. Maybe via SHIFT clicking and normal clicking for the Live 9 behaviour.

In Live 9 there was the context menu option Add lane for each automated envelope but that one is totally gone in 10 which makes is very unwieldy to shown all automation lanes.
Edit: I see this context menu option is still there but it has moved. You now have to click below the Automation Control Chooser.
Last edited by Rivanni on Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

saski
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by saski » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:39 pm

So...bit late to the party.

Can we now do fades on multiple parts in arrange?

Rivanni
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Rivanni » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:58 pm

saski wrote:So...bit late to the party.

Can we now do fades on multiple parts in arrange?

Welcome.

No.
Upvote here:
https://ableton.centercode.com/project/ ... 1a0c3b1373

Machinesworking
Posts: 11077
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Machinesworking » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:22 am

bubbleandsquawk wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:Got in on the beta. Opened up Live 10 in rewire slave mode, was able to load one of the three??? drum racks it could see?? and play the drum editor in Push 2.
Tried loading the Wave table synth into another Live track and it cashed Digital Performer..

Pretty crazy though that Ableton are able to and working on implementing Live being able to access Push 2 in slave mode, but cannot get Max 4 Live to work....
Of the two IMO it would figure that sending controller messages to two different DAWs in rewire mode would be more likely to cause stability issues than embedded M4L...

Oh and yes, this is awesome if the bugs get worked out! Maschine pretty much is getting put to the wayside compared to the capabilities that Live as a drum machine has for any DAW.
I really didn't work that much with Live rewired before because of how much functionality in Push gets lost, but if they nail this bugs wise, then Live is always useful even when working in other DAWs.
This sounds promising!
To be clear here, Live in rewire slave mode still loses Max 4 Live, and still loses the ability to host VSTs.
The Max 4 Live thing is still problematic as M4L cover the LFO...

What it does do though is allow you to use the Drum Racks with Push as a drum machine just like you can when not rewired, and still lights up as a controller for MIDI note entering etc. I'm going into it some more today since it's one of my favorite new features of 10.

stringtapper
Posts: 6266
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:21 pm

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by stringtapper » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:09 am

The multi-channel M4L feature is worth the upgrade alone for me. I'm actually going to start using Live again after laying off of it for a couple of years.

When they release the info on how to route signals internally through the API things are going to get really crazy.
Unsound Designer

Soarer
Posts: 239
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 9:22 am
Location: Copenhagen

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by Soarer » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:18 am

I've been playing with the beta the last couple of days and it certainly feels great to have Live 10 on my system. It feels like getting a brand new and refreshed Ableton Live with the new look and the many useful new features and overall it feels a lot quicker and more efficient to use.

There's much to like.
I'm very very happy with Capture since I always rehearse a synth part on Push for a while and then press record when it's finally right. No need for this anymore. I press capture and that final rehearse where I got it right is right there. A really helpful feature and a great time saver!
Personally I'm a big fan of the new favorites "folders" and have been missing those for years. Now I have the things I use all the time in one or two places.
The ability to route a drum cell's output into a separate processing bus is great and something I have been waiting for years.
It's a whole new situation now being able to use M4L without having to worry about loading times, cpu usage and slowing down Live. It works very well now. I hope to see some cool updates to the existing devices and more well made devices from Ableton.

Echo is great! I'm getting a lot of good results with it and the pitching of the delays sounds great when changing delay times. I see many uses for this new delay/reverb effect.
Wavetable is great as well and it works so well with Push 2. Got some fine sounds out of it. Don't know if I'll be using it that much since I have another great wavetable synth but we'll see.
The Drum Bus effect is a welcome addition which easily brings good results.
The new 32 Notes step sequencer is fun to play with and allows for some creative sequences.

SvenH
Posts: 121
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:40 am
Contact:

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by SvenH » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:04 pm

Soarer wrote:Wavetable is great as well and it works so well with Push 2. Got some fine sounds out of it.
Nice to hear that Wavetable works well with Push 2. Are all parameters mapped to Push? Is the Push layout good enough to encourage patch creation without using the computer keyboard at all?

re:dream
Posts: 4545
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by re:dream » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:07 pm

The Push paramater mapping for wavetable is a dream. In fact all the parameter mapping for native devices is really wonderful.

re:dream
Posts: 4545
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: 10 is announced!

Post by re:dream » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:10 pm

In other news: clicking on that cross-hatched clip marker that you see in a group track (the group slot)... opens multi-clip editing for all the clips in that scene. Lovely.

Post Reply