Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
stringtapper
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by stringtapper » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:06 pm

acYm wrote:If switching a 0 to a 1 somewhere in the codebase is too complicated...
:lol:

You gotta love the inanity that follows a new software release.

:roll:
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Stromkraft
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:47 pm

acYm wrote:Well, from what I can gather, there's no poly-aft in Live 10?

That's insanely pathetic.
Agreed.
acYm wrote:
If switching a 0 to a 1 somewhere in the codebase is too complicated...
What? Is this your take on the complexity of MIDI software development? If so, you have quite a bit of research to do. A few weeks of it. Because implementing PolyAT or MPE is not as simple as you seem to imagine.

It needs to be done, yes. Still not simple. Doable, yes. But still not simple. Please have some respect for what the development team faces even as the request itself most certainly is warranted.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Angstrom
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Angstrom » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:14 pm

acYm wrote:Well, from what I can gather, there's no poly-aft in Live 10?
That's insanely pathetic.
If switching a 0 to a 1 somewhere in the codebase is too complicated... opening my wallet for this update will prove very problematic as well.
This comment is like a satire of the kind of comments I get from clients "well just change it! How hard can it be?"

Consequently I actually find it funny. Probably because I'm losing my marbles.

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stringtapper
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by stringtapper » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:43 pm

Angstrom wrote:This comment is like a satire of the kind of comments I get from clients "well just change it! How hard can it be?"

Consequently I actually find it funny. Probably because I'm losing my marbles.
No doubt. It's like "Clients From Hell: DAW Edition."
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login
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by login » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:25 pm

The request is totally legitimate, but ask it nice: write to support and explain why you need it or log in to the centercode forum and vote for this feature (which has many votes BTW).

I also want this, but that doesn't mean I go and insult Ableton team and whine as a 2 year old.

okgoetc
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by okgoetc » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:29 am

Seriously, no polyphonic aftertouch in Live 10? This is so frustrating, the most infuriating part is why would you filter it out entirely from the inputs! Seriously what is going on here? Any actual musicians in the development team?

dr_loop
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by dr_loop » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:48 am

I also want this, but that doesn't mean I go and insult Ableton team and whine as a 2 year old.

...well, yeah!
The problem is, Ableton *refuses* to say just a single word about *why* such a supposedly *easy* thing can be so difficult.
Or give any hints what we could expect.

They lost me on this! And I'm surely not the only one.

No wonder, we whine as a 2-year-olds when we are treated like a 2-year-olds!

mikb
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by mikb » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:36 am

dr_loop wrote: "No wonder, we whine as a 2-year-olds when we are treated like a 2-year-olds!"
A somewhat lame excuse. We, your fellow users, deserve better and we're in this together. Rise to the occasion and just let Ableton know in a courteous way that you expect them to solve this one.
dr_loop wrote: "*why* such a supposedly *easy* thing can be so difficult."
The automation editing is actually not dead easy to solve, but other DAW makers have solved this I think successfully.
Basic gear info: Macbook Pro with macOS 10.12, Ableton Live Suite version 9 (64bit) with Ozone, Push and APC20 as controllers.

dr_loop
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by dr_loop » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:11 pm

A somewhat lame excuse. We, your fellow users, deserve better and we're in this together. Rise to the occasion and just let Ableton know in a courteous way that you expect them to solve this one.
...well, I did. And finally gave up.
The automation editing is actually not dead easy to solve, but other DAW makers have solved this I think successfully.
... I never asked for the full monty, nor did many others.

I would have been happy if they'd gone at least a first step and allow PAT to pass through and thus allow at least basic MPE control.
This DAW is called Live after all.
In some respects it's just stuck in the Middle Ages of computer science. Sigh :roll:

Stromkraft
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:31 pm

dr_loop wrote:
A somewhat lame excuse. We, your fellow users, deserve better and we're in this together. Rise to the occasion and just let Ableton know in a courteous way that you expect them to solve this one.
...well, I did. And finally gave up.
The automation editing is actually not dead easy to solve, but other DAW makers have solved this I think successfully.
... I never asked for the full monty, nor did many others.

I would have been happy if they'd gone at least a first step and allow PAT to pass through and thus allow at least basic MPE control.
This DAW is called Live after all.
In some respects it's just stuck in the Middle Ages of computer science.
Tell me about it! I wish they would have told us why they just wouldn't (won't) implement this. It's not as if it's something new either. It's dead old and there is more support than ever in instruments. Maybe PolyAT software instruments weren't so common when Live was conceived?

On this one Ableton are behind the times. I still hope it's part of the plan ahead at least.
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dr_loop
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by dr_loop » Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:40 pm

...well, assuming Ableton is not deliberatly evil or stupid, it leaves some room for speculations.

either, they lost parts of their sourcecode or its such a mess, that nobody is understanding it anymore.
or there are some crazy legal issues (???)
or, most likely, they said: yes, we will do this in our *BIG REWRITE OF EVERYTHING*, which never happened and never will.

:roll:

Machinesworking
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:45 am

dr_loop wrote:I would have been happy if they'd gone at least a first step and allow PAT to pass through and thus allow at least basic MPE control.
They actually don't need each other to work, Poly Aftertouch and MPE that is; and you can do MPE control right now.
Yes it requires 16 MIDI channels, but MPE since it uses multiple MIDI channels by nature doesn't need a single MIDI channel to receive independent aftertouch signals.
Roli have a whole tutorial on setting it up. A good friend bought a Roli and I was convinced he was going to switch from using Ableton Live in frustration, but once you set up the channels, Rack them and save that as a MIDI track preset, done. Yes editing if need be could be cumbersome, but MPE is about live performance so it's sort of a moot point.

Just a guess here, but I think Ableton limited MIDI in Live on purpose, it wasn't done because it was easier, but because it was probably seen as frugal, as in less taxing on the whole experience. I'm in total agreement that it's a PITA, I myself end up maybe starting something in Live, porting to a full fledged MIDI DAW like Digital Performer, Reaper etc. then porting back for performance etc... And yes, in 2004 or so when Live got VST/AU instruments, MIDI etc. I don't think there was a single polyphonic aftertouch controller on the market.

Stromkraft
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:45 am

Machinesworking wrote:I don't think there was a single polyphonic aftertouch controller on the market.
I haven't studied this in detail so you could be right. But as far I can remember these have always been around, since like the eighties. It could be as the beds are more expensive these models with PolyAT haven't been very popular and then it was treated by Ableton as if there weren't sufficient amounts to worry about.
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Angstrom
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Angstrom » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:14 am

I still think it's hilarious that Ableton have two main products which could be described as:

1: A super-integrated polyphonic-aftertouch controller

2: A DAW which does not support polyphonic-aftertouch.

Stromkraft
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Re: Polyphonic Aftertouch in Live 10: The Thread

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:10 pm

Angstrom wrote:I still think it's hilarious that Ableton have two main products which could be described as:

1: A super-integrated polyphonic-aftertouch controller

2: A DAW which does not support polyphonic-aftertouch.
While that certainly is hilarious doesn't this also give us some hope? Thin perhaps, but hope nevertheless. The alternative is horrendous.
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