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Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:14 pm
by SpeedKing
The way things look, and if people like them, is subjective, I get that. With that said though, the Ableton GUI is masterful IMO. Granted, I've only used Cakewalk back in the day, Reaper and Bitwig (and have seen videos though of everything else)....but yeah, compared to anything I've seen, I LOVE the look of Live.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:21 pm
by hoffman2k
Machinesworking wrote: Ignore SysEx and add MPE and poly aftertouch,
Add in comping but ignore multi MIDI track editing...
Sweetwater wrote:If you use vintage synthesizers that rely on SysEx for control and management, you’re in luck with Ableton Live 10. Now supporting SysEx, you’ll be able to perform full preset backups, access deeper functions via MIDI, perform SysEx dumps, and other device-specific MIDI data management, right from the Live 10 interface.
It isn't documented and/or activated, so no clue how it works. I have no idea how they'd add Sysex without MPE. MPE is just shorter Sysex..
In regards to comping, we'd need group tracks within group tracks, a multiclip fade tool and bounce in place.
One out of three ain't bad to begin with ;)

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:42 pm
by Machinesworking
hoffman2k wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: Ignore SysEx and add MPE and poly aftertouch,
Add in comping but ignore multi MIDI track editing...
Sweetwater wrote:If you use vintage synthesizers that rely on SysEx for control and management, you’re in luck with Ableton Live 10. Now supporting SysEx, you’ll be able to perform full preset backups, access deeper functions via MIDI, perform SysEx dumps, and other device-specific MIDI data management, right from the Live 10 interface.
It isn't documented and/or activated, so no clue how it works. I have no idea how they'd add Sysex without MPE. MPE is just shorter Sysex..
In regards to comping, we'd need group tracks within group tracks, a multiclip fade tool and bounce in place.
One out of three ain't bad to begin with ;)
I think you missed my point there.

SysEx gets added but MPE does not. < i.e. opposite of what I expected.
This gets repeated with other improvements like access to multi midi clip editing, which was a lot less of a request than comping audio.

It's all good, I would just be out money if I had bet someone on what Live 10 would offer. :lol:

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:54 pm
by Machinesworking
Wanted to add, the pen/tablet behavior setting in Preferences makes Live usable with a touchscreen monitor on OSX. The Slate Raven here reacts really well with Live now, before it knobs and faders in Live jumped around too much to be usable.

There are a lot of little things like this that make 10 a good upgrade, I can see why someone would want more, MPE being a big one, but I doubt it's being ignored since even their own controller Push 2 could benefit from advanced MIDI controller specs like polyphonic aftertouch. Thing is unless you own Linn or Roli devices there aren't a huge amount of controllers out there that do MPE, so it's still a bit of a niche market compared to adding in multi midi editing etc.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:15 pm
by hoffman2k
Ah, my bad :lol:

Yeah, I'd be losing those bets too...
I thought they would have fixed flooding of the Undo history before they added unlimited Undo history. My last hope is that they're holding off on releasing their new LFO until adding the fix, otherwise I'm gonna make that beta spew status reports like its a volcano.

The groundwork for what most people are hankering after seems to be making some good progress though.
For all the editing features that people desire, it makes sense to make the track grouping infinitely deep first. They were already halfway there with Racks within Racks...
The Audio track routing feature for MFL, isn't that exactly what would be required for that side-chaining feature of VST3?
The best one is the whole MFL integration though... People demand native versions of MFL devices? Make MFL a native feature, problem solved :) (I know, the rewire thing... But maybe Link was step 1 towards killing Rewire)

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:25 pm
by Angstrom
I feel L10 does kinda lack a headline feature.

L9 had "record automation in Session" which was itself a tough sell to a new user unaware of the issue. But it went over very well with most existing users as a "must have". L9 also led off with "New Browser, with factory preset previews", which was met with somewhat mixed responses. L9 brought devices such as Glue and the convert to MIDI features.
Live 9.0x as it did not deliver the tools I actually needed, as I was producing music which did not rely on session automation recorind during those years, so it wasn't a key feature for me.I was unlucky there.

So not much in L9 addressed my actual needs. I proposed thata more Ableton headline would be - Session should be updated to allow clips to encapsulate clips. I said that Live's USP was non-linearity and that the arrangement and session had been neglected. I said Arrangement could be come more non-linear. I said that nested "meta" clips could be a method of both arranging and comping. It will kill about 9 birds with one very Ableton shaped stone. So .. I was disapointed with L9, which focused on beat making with Push and factory packs.
I don't really think they hit their stride until L9.x point versions which introduced multi-monitor. Which I found actually useful.

L10, I'm not really sure what the headline features are. I'd say the new look, Wavetable device, Capture, multi-clip editing, Echo device. and some tweaks and tools which are good, but slightly underwhelming in the context of Ableton Live. I mean multi-midi is a really good and useful tool and that's why every other DAW has it. The new "look" is barely any different from the old look. The new synth is nice, but is anyone desperately lacking a DAW based soft synth here? Surely what we want from Ableton is to capitalised on the core values.

I can only hope that the point versions bring something big to the table. Something which expands on the idea of non-linear music production.

I am not holding my breath for this to happen.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:51 pm
by nowtime
Both NI and Ableton struck out on taking my money this fall. The MkII of the KK keyboard and now Live 10, although both eagerly awaited, are both yawn-fests and Live 10 surprisingly so considering how long it took them make it. I would get the new Live version if I were not in the midst of switching to Studio One for mixing.

Abe's must have a trick up their sleeve with Push 3. That must be where they've put all this time and energy.

I'm really glad I saved money!

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:28 pm
by jlgrimes
I kind of like Ableton's look. It has a very minimalistic approach and tends to get out of the way of things.

That said I like how you can change colors and skins pretty easy now and keep from just using default (gray) theme.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:07 pm
by casiblake
login wrote:Live GUI is a piece of Art. Leave it alone.
I wouldn't say it is perfect, but it does really seem that Ableton have achieved a hi-DPI scaleable UI overhaul (and my goodness I've been waiting YEARS for this) without compromising the look, feel and identity of Live. 32" 4K monitor + 200% UI zoom = massive comfort and workflow enhancement.

That plus arrange workflow enhancements and boot / loading time improvements make the upgrade price just about worth it. I do hope, though, that the audio engine has had further efficiency improvements. I really don't like seeing only 1 maybe 2 cores being used during an export... :?

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:21 am
by antic604
I'm actually pretty happy with the update, as it addresses many wishes that I had (high-DPI support, touchpad zoom, multi-clip editing, saving of undo history, integrated LFO/Steps/EnvFollow, nested groups, automation snapping, etc.) while also adding some stuff that surprised me very positively, like Capture, Wavetable and Echo. Lots of small workflow enhancements I'm indifferent about (fades, warping clips, partial mutes, etc.) but they're fine. I was actually pretty surprised that this time a lot of focus went into Arrangement and basically nothing changed in Session (like follow actions for scenes? hello?!), whereas it was completely the opposite in last 5+ years.

What I'm not keen of - to the point that it's a deal breaker for the update and actually even staying with Live right now - is how they've 'simplified' (or dumbed down, really) automation, so that it forces certain workflow that is far from ideal for the type of music I do and the hardware I do it on (Surface Pro 4, so small single screen), whereas it was working perfectly fine in 9 Suite. Hope there's still time to have it changed, especially since it can be done as an option for those that want it and the rest can 'enjoy' the global toggle (vote here, if that something that bothers you as well)

----

And BTW, mark my words - Push 3 will be a Push 2 with slightly bigger screen + embedded Live and it won't need a computer anymore. That's where they're going with it - it's an instrument and you don't need to look at your laptop.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:01 am
by jonbenderr
I'm pretty happy with the update. Certainly not mind-blowing stuff.

BUT...when I think of all the goodies and improvements we received throughout the course of Live 9 for FREE, I have no problem putting money into this product because I'm sure more will come throughout the various updates.

I remember seeing the free upgrade to Max 7 awhile back and I ended up with that awesome stomach sinking feeling and a nice "holy shiiii..." in my brain.

Max is a huge thing all around for me though, so getting in on whatever is to come of Max 8 is exciting. I know it is hit or miss for some, but honestly, if it wasn't for Max, I would have never gotten over a complete creative shutdown I had some years ago. It just makes making music fun again and more "adventure" than "chore". Especially once I started learning to roll my own. That's when things went off the rails.

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:19 am
by antic604
jonbenderr wrote:That's when things went off the rails.
I'm not a native English speaker, but "went of the rails" sounds like something completely opposite to what you meant :)

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:55 am
by jonbenderr
Sometimes going "off the rails" is a good thing. Means things are not boring, linear, controlled...etc. etc. :D

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:35 pm
by antic604
jonbenderr wrote:Sometimes going "off the rails" is a good thing. Means things are not boring, linear, controlled...etc. etc. :D
Not to derail the thread (hmmm...) but I've checked few sources and all of them say it has a rather negative meaning, but sure I can see how introduction of chaos, unpredictability or loss of control can be good in the context of music creation.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/go+off+the+rails
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/off_the_rails

:)

Re: Am I The Only One Not Impressed?

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:32 pm
by Tarekith
I always thought going off the rails was a bad thing too.

Then again I still initially think musicians mean the breakdown when they refer to the Drop, so what do I know :)