In Live 9 Ableton calculates delays from left to right, getting to the sends last,
This is not correct. All tracks are calculated per one sample. If they were not tracks couldn't be nullified using the Live
Reading over my Nico quote it seems that's more in line with what 2pauluzz2
says here. So
"There will always be at least 1 sample delay when routing a return track back into an ordinary audio track. This has to do with the computation cycle of the audio engine."
That said I get total cancellation when I did my tests in 2015 and I have never experienced any phasing issues routing a return to anywhere as long as there
is no signal going back to said return. Total cancellation when comparing two signals with one being polarity reversed means both signals are
phase locked and also exactly the same. Of course there could be some issues in the unhearable range or so low I didn't notice it, but that'd be mostly academic knowledge.
I've redone the test from 2015 now in both Live 9.7.5 as well as 10beta, expanding on it a bit. AFAICT, the info from Nico
and Live 9 fixed what he was talking about
. My correction of 2pauluzz2
Here's the test:
Two separate systems before the master buss:
3 audio tracks are routed to a buss. These audio tracks are also sending fully to a return with twentysomething EQ8s in oversampled mode to get some latency to compensate.
The return is also routed to the buss.
The other system, track 5 to 8, is exactly the same, with the exception its return has more EQ8s. All in oversampled mode.
The buss II track (not the return) also has Utility
with preset "Phase Imvert" (Polarity Inversion).
Because both busses contain the same signal these cancel out completely. This means the returns can't be even a sample late, as that would leave some signal.
As you can see in the screen dump there is no signal in the Spectrum
analyser in the master track (due to cancellation).
You can check this is true by (I can share via Splice if needed):
The Test set (Live 10):
- Enable the send in one of the busses, to the return routed to it. This prevent proper delay compensation.
- Delay one of the returns 1 sample with Track Delay. This illustrates how it would sound if the return was late.
- If you want to listen to the effects without nullification simply solo one of the busses or play only one of the scenes.