Please recommend keyboard to complement Push

[SvenH]

I want a new midi keyboard to complement Push 2. Here are my rough specs - it should have:

* 61 keys. (I am not sure whether 88 keys will fit into my studio space, but that may be an option...)

* velocity and aftertouch.

* mod wheel and pitch bend.

* at least semi weighted keys.

* transport controls. I don't need faders, rotaries or drum pads - those bases are covered by the Push. None the less, I find nearby transport controls nice when recording.

* Lat but not the least - it should work well with Live. I.e. it should BOTH be officially supported AND known by users to work well in practice more or less out of the box. I don't want to be forced to fiddle with scripts, firmware updates etc. every month to keep things working...

Grateful for recommendations,
Sven

[Tagor]

i would love to see key a keyboard with the scale-ability of push.
something like this already exists ?

[login]

First, semiweighted keys is kind of lie, to me semiweighted would be the ones used by nord in the light versions of the electro series stage pianos and I haven't tried anything like that in a controller. Below that to me anything feels just like synth action, some are more stiff than others, some feel crappy and cheap.

To me the controllers with the best key action right now are the Roland A800PRO and the NI Komplete kontrol mk2, the second uses the best fatar action for synth keys.

The novation sl mk2 had the good fatar key action too but it is discontinued.

The rest of the bunch to me feel crappy as hell: arturia, akai, maudio, alesis, nektar.

The Roland is supported by live as a control surface, it is obviously not as integrated as push but it can control the mixer and the first 8 parameters of devices and you can use the transport controls.

The new NI Komplete kontrol mk2 has even better integration but it does require to install the script.

[SvenH]

First, semiweighted keys is kind of lie, to me semiweighted would be the ones used by nord in the light versions of the electro series stage pianos and I haven't tried anything like that in a controller. Below that to me anything feels just like synth action, some are more stiff than others, some feel crappy and cheap.

To me the controllers with the best key action right now are the Roland A800PRO and the NI Komplete kontrol mk2, the second uses the best fatar action for synth keys.

The novation sl mk2 had the good fatar key action too but it is discontinued.

The rest of the bunch to me feel crappy as hell: arturia, akai, maudio, alesis, nektar.

The Roland is supported by live as a control surface, it is obviously not as integrated as push but it can control the mixer and the first 8 parameters of devices and you can use the transport controls.

The new NI Komplete kontrol mk2 has even better integration but it does require to install the script.

Informative reply with motivation, thanks a lot! I am not sure I need fatar action (have no idea what it feels like), but I will try at least one of the two you mention in a music store!

Love to hear others opinions too.

[Stromkraft]

The novation sl mk2 had the good fatar key action too but it is discontinued.

Yep!

Later Novation keyboards are not bad either.

[Stromkraft]

The new NI Komplete kontrol mk2 has even better integration but it does require to install the script.

Why are Live users swearing at this range sometimes? I forgot.

[Stromkraft]

First, semiweighted keys is kind of lie, to me semiweighted would be the ones used by nord in the light versions of the electro series stage pianos and I haven't tried anything like that in a controller. Below that to me anything feels just like synth action, some are more stiff than others, some feel crappy and cheap.

To me the controllers with the best key action right now are the Roland A800PRO and the NI Komplete kontrol mk2, the second uses the best fatar action for synth keys.

While all of that is likely true, I'd say that M-Audio vs Novation is very different in playability and to me Novation beds, those I've tried, feel what I would regard as semi-weighted. And M-Audio never ever feels good that way, whatever they call them.

I somewhat surprisingly, as I'm not really a keyboardist, prefer weighted keys, probably because I find those easier to play. This would entail getting 88 keys I think and I don't have the room for that.

[hoffman2k]

If you want weighted keys, buy a digital piano at the least. You'll find cheaper piano's with better keys than most MIDI Keyboards in the same price range. And still have money left for a decent smaller keyboard.
Weighted keys lend themselves well to piano pieces, not always so much for synth pieces. Try the aftertouch on a Nord for example.
Semi-Weighted is a ripoff in most cases, its just a plastic keyboard with some metal glued under the keys.
You can't just generalise brands. M-audio always sucked, but on various levels depending on who owns the company at the time. (Ever had to fill in an RMA with Avid?)

The Novation SL Mk2 keyboards were so good, it actually can't hurt to get one secondhand. And they're still available new too.
The Novation Impact and Launch lines of keyboards are a bit crap compared to the SL, but you get what you pay for.
I found the Arturia Keylabs (49/61) quite playable when it came to the aftertouch, but unbox it at the store if you buy new. Arturia sucks at packaging and the metal plates glued to the "weighted keys" may not always remain attached during the shipping to stores. Avoid the 88-key weighted MIDI keyboards of any brand. Thats just a bad piano without sound.

[jestermgee]

I have a Komplete Kontrol S61 MK1

Works great, plays great and the newer MK2 integrate well with Live allowing mixer control and even clip triggering as well as on-board navigation and browsing of presets from your VSTs.

Depends what you are looking for but it's been a stable and very useful investment for me for 3 years

[miyaru]

I had the small A300pro from Roland, and the action was OK, the intergration was not to good though, only few things supported.

The Roland was good in a way it was usefull and nicely playing, but sold it again after buying Push2. I must say I have 2 other synths in my studio: a Korg N1 with weighted keys and a R3 with normal keys, but hardly use them soundwise and as controller though.

[SvenH]

Thanks for all contributions to this thread!

Having looked into the various keyboards discussed in this thread, the best keyboard *today* seems to be Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2.

A keyboard with this price tag, though, I think I should be able to expect to last many, many years. And I get the impression of the hardware that it could last 10+ years.

The issue that scares me a bit however, is that this kind of controller with decent Ableton Live integration requires advanced software to work as intended. Even if the hardware will last some 10+ years, as soon as the firmware/software developer (in this case Native Instruments) does not find it profitable to support the controller with necessary updates, the Live integration may stop working and the controller may very quickly loose its original value.

[Stromkraft]

as soon as the firmware/software developer (in this case Native Instruments) does not find it profitable to support the controller with necessary updates, the Live integration may stop working and the controller may very quickly loose its original value. :(

In NI's case I think this is something you can count on. I distrust NI hardware unfortunately.

[SvenH]

I distrust NI hardware unfortunately.

Why? Personal experience with NI hardware?

[login]

I distrust NI hardware unfortunately.

Why? Personal experience with NI hardware?

Kore and Guitar Rig stuff got discontinued.

But Maschine has been supported for long.


I personally think this KK keyboards are safe for 5-6 years.

[Stromkraft]

I distrust NI hardware unfortunately.

Why? Personal experience with NI hardware?

Abandonment and bad drivers. I realize this varies with product type, but the handling by NI left a lot to to be desired and frankly they haven't won me back for any hardware purchases. I love their software though, mostly.