someone explain to me a real world use of the nudge in V5

[Angstrom]

yeah, thats pretty much teh way I do it .. but can I still do ot the same way.

copy clip
paste
open new clip and drag the start marker by an 8th or 7/16ths or whatever
jump back and forthe between these 2 clips.

I'm worried that I'll now have to find a little '>' "move start marker" button and click it 7 times for 7/16ths ... which would be slower than the old method for me!

[ryansupak]

Here's the purpose of nudge, which I've been requesting since v1, as I see it:

Suppose you have two clips -- one clip is a hiphop instrumental, and the other clip is an acapella. Both are 64 beats long.

If you're not using quantization, then it's possible that the phase of the two clips could be off from each other. Another possibility is that, even though you're using quantization and both clips are warped properly, you decide that the acapella isn't "hanging" on the instrumental quite right.

Aside from MIDI-controlled nudging, here are other ways of fixing this:

Go to the mouse, select the clip in question, and tweak the offset numbers. However, this is limited because, often, the amount that the phase of the track needs to be altered is much smaller than an entire number. Also, this takes time and doing it in a sweaty club, while your acapella is sounding crappy, is not a terribly appealing option IMO.

Another fix would be to have a separate phase-corrected loop, as someone mentioned in this thread. However, once you're "in the moment", it's too late to do this.

So, basically, the nudge function is a way to correct the phase of one running clip, relative to another clip, on the fly, without mousing, and without having to retrigger either clip.

If this isn't clear I can mention other scenarios where it comes in handy -- it's already come in handy for me, while playing live.

rs

[DJSK]

I just tried using the nudge feature last night to DJ with. It's great when you are using live now to beatmatch and mix into a track that is being played off of vinyl or cd. It kind of works the way a pitch bend button works on a cd player if you set the quantize to 1/32 or none. After I mix in my first track I just hit the revert button and continue DJing with live. Before I used to just keep playing the track and then stopping it when it would come off and then alter the pitch and then try again. It worked but was a real pain but now with version 5 it's no problem at all. I have also found it useful in production work when you add a delay effect to a clip. Sometimes I over do the delay effect even though the echo is right how I want it to sound and nudging the clips helps keep the audio where I want it to be.

[DJRetard]

I'll do a quick mp3 tomorrow, k?But until we all figure out how wicked a contraption it will remain one of those "huh?"-features that we all love and hate.

Best,
Andreas / machi

I would love to be able to figure out whata wicked feature it is. I guess Im a visual or in this case audio example type person. Honestly, Ive played about with it so much now Ive began to dislike the feature for lack of gratification.

Im a spolied little brat and I need instant gratification

I will keep an eye on teh thread for your audio example

[serotoninsteve]

Here's the purpose of nudge, which I've been requesting since v1, as I see it:

Suppose you have two clips -- one clip is a hiphop instrumental, and the other clip is an acapella. Both are 64 beats long.

If you're not using quantization, then it's possible that the phase of the two clips could be off from each other. Another possibility is that, even though you're using quantization and both clips are warped properly, you decide that the acapella isn't "hanging" on the instrumental quite right.

Aside from MIDI-controlled nudging, here are other ways of fixing this:

Go to the mouse, select the clip in question, and tweak the offset numbers. However, this is limited because, often, the amount that the phase of the track needs to be altered is much smaller than an entire number. Also, this takes time and doing it in a sweaty club, while your acapella is sounding crappy, is not a terribly appealing option IMO.

Another fix would be to have a separate phase-corrected loop, as someone mentioned in this thread. However, once you're "in the moment", it's too late to do this.

So, basically, the nudge function is a way to correct the phase of one running clip, relative to another clip, on the fly, without mousing, and without having to retrigger either clip.

If this isn't clear I can mention other scenarios where it comes in handy -- it's already come in handy for me, while playing live.

rs

Nice explanation and a good trick! I was not thinking about this , but now it´s clear.

Greetings

[quandry]

I fully understand the usefulness of nudge to match two unrelated tracks as per ryansupak's explaination--makes perfect sense as a feature that would greatly benifit anyone doing DJ type stuff with Live--seems much better suited to quick and subtle shifting of tracks while staying in time and performing--I have no doubt it is WAY better than older versions of Live at that. Sadly, I can't take much advantage of this, as I loop on the fly at a steady tempo for any given tune, and as do some others. Other people have live sets with a bunch of pre-warped tracks or tracks they created at certain tempos, so for them as well, the "beat-matching" provided by nudge is really not a useful feature. The scrubbing was/is an extremely useful feature to some of us, and the bummer is that this feature was seriously changed (imho to its utter degredation from a creative tool to a much more utilitarian one) to make room for the nudge feature. I just wish we could have a button on a per/clip basis (and one in prefs. to determine what method of scrubbing applies to newly recorded clips) to choose between the old behaviour and new behaviour. For me, the added "features" of nudge don't nearly make up for the loss of fluid scrubbing.

Ryan

[supster]

the nudge function is a way to correct the phase of one running clip, relative to another clip, on the fly, without mousing, and without having to retrigger either clip.

yes, this was a needed feature for DJing:

1 - when your full track clips are not quite matched up because of warping discrepancies ... previously there was no way to "nudge" or brake in small incements to get rid of flamming

now you can

2 - now you can also beatmatch against turntables and CDRs, and correct.

the problem we are having is in the implementation. they unlinked the play position from the start marker in the clip, and assigned the quantization of the nudge to global quantization rather than local clip quantization

so this is wreaking havoc with other basic functions and techniques in Live.

please contribute to some threads we have going in the Wishlist forum if you have a problem with this ... thanks all ...
.

[Machinate]

quandry, I understand your concern, however I don't see this as a utility at all. YMMV, of course, but I've been getting some pretty wicked stuff out of this new feature, don't know what you'd call it, but it sure ain't nudging.

In live4 the scrub-thing was quantized at the clip update rate, wasn't it? well, if you set the clip launch quantize in the prefs to 1 bar, the global q. can be used in much the same way as the clip update rate in v4, if I'm not mistaken.
The term "beat-matching" can only be used on the "none" and "1/32" quantize settings as far as I'm concerned. Using the nudge at any other q.setting is strictly creative - unless the dj totally sucks

[Machinate]

the problem we are having is in the implementation. they unlinked the play position from the start marker in the clip,

Yes, I quite like that, this means that if the clip is retriggered the playposition isn't off. Admittedly I was never a "scrubber" in live<5, since I didn't dig the lack of control I felt I had.

and assigned the quantization of the nudge to global quantization rather than local clip quantization
so this is wreaking havoc with other basic functions and techniques in Live.

I think the vast majority of users use one particular type of launch quantize for their clips, and if they do that they would probably benefit greatly from setting the default launch q to that. As far as I see it, this completely frees the global quantize to be used with "nudging" - or am I missing something? I just did a quick scan through the live5 manual and the way I see it even the follow actions are safe:

Note that a Follow Action happens exactly after the duration that is specified by the Follow Action Time controls unless clip quantization is set to a value other than "None" or "Global." Follow Actions circumvent global quantization but not clip quantization.

[hacktheplanet]

If I understand the feature correctly...
You could write a drum pattern for instance, and then assign some MIDI knob to the nudge thing. Then as you twist the knob, the beat would change up. I think it sounds pretty neat.

[quandry]

If I understand the feature correctly...
You could write a drum pattern for instance, and then assign some MIDI knob to the nudge thing. Then as you twist the knob, the beat would change up. I think it sounds pretty neat.

in theory, yes. But in terms of musicality of scrubbing in 5 vs. 3 (mouse only in 3 ), 5 gets its beat down imho by the fluidity of scrubbing in 3. 5 style might be more helpful for DJ's nudging tracks, and the scrubbing might in some ways be more intuitive, but if you've really sat down in 3 or 4 and practiced scrubbing for awhile, 5 leaves you wanting the old way back as an option.

Ryan