Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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ian_halsall
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by ian_halsall » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:39 pm

I know there are lots of improvements - just not 189 quid of improvements

it's not their fault - nobody buys music software any more because:

a) everyone pirates software
b) you can't make any money from music any more because
i) it's easy to copy it
ii) it's easy to make music like everyone else in 10 minutes

and it's probaby the last upgrade they will do

Check the Native Instruments website - no new instruments for ages - no money in it

sad

Mark Williams
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Mark Williams » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:19 pm

ian_halsall wrote:I know there are lots of improvements - just not 189 quid of improvements

it's not their fault - nobody buys music software any more because:

a) everyone pirates software
b) you can't make any money from music any more because
i) it's easy to copy it
ii) it's easy to make music like everyone else in 10 minutes

and it's probaby the last upgrade they will do

Check the Native Instruments website - no new instruments for ages - no money in it

sad
Wrong on several occasions,
£189 of improvements you say, well for a Synt or effect VST you could EASILY pay more than that for 1 vst. Let alone a new synth, and several FX as well as several new features.

People do buy software or there would be no companies. Some musicians ARE making money, whether that be scoring for Films, Theatre work, or general release/streaming. Yes some people do use pirated copies, but they will always be behind with updates etc.

Yes its easier to make music like everyone else, but that is NOT a software fault, thats a USER fault. As for Native Instruments, well they just released a new FX pack, comprising 3 new fx , phasis, choral & flair, let along released symphony collection a couple months ago AND have been working on sounds.com, as well as several major developments for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol on the near horizon.

Sorry to burst your blinkered bubble, but BANG.
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

ian_halsall
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by ian_halsall » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:14 am

Mark Williams wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:I know there are lots of improvements - just not 189 quid of improvements

it's not their fault - nobody buys music software any more because:

a) everyone pirates software
b) you can't make any money from music any more because
i) it's easy to copy it
ii) it's easy to make music like everyone else in 10 minutes

and it's probaby the last upgrade they will do

Check the Native Instruments website - no new instruments for ages - no money in it

sad
Wrong on several occasions,
£189 of improvements you say, well for a Synt or effect VST you could EASILY pay more than that for 1 vst. Let alone a new synth, and several FX as well as several new features.

People do buy software or there would be no companies. Some musicians ARE making money, whether that be scoring for Films, Theatre work, or general release/streaming. Yes some people do use pirated copies, but they will always be behind with updates etc.

Yes its easier to make music like everyone else, but that is NOT a software fault, thats a USER fault. As for Native Instruments, well they just released a new FX pack, comprising 3 new fx , phasis, choral & flair, let along released symphony collection a couple months ago AND have been working on sounds.com, as well as several major developments for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol on the near horizon.

Sorry to burst your blinkered bubble, but BANG.
To be honest I don't care - I just won't upgrade

I didn't say it was a software fault

Don't use the word "occasions" out of context - it's embarrassing, synt has an "h" on the end

I was releasing "music" since 1993

Mark Williams
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Mark Williams » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:25 am

ian_halsall wrote:
Mark Williams wrote:
ian_halsall wrote:I know there are lots of improvements - just not 189 quid of improvements

it's not their fault - nobody buys music software any more because:

a) everyone pirates software
b) you can't make any money from music any more because
i) it's easy to copy it
ii) it's easy to make music like everyone else in 10 minutes

and it's probaby the last upgrade they will do

Check the Native Instruments website - no new instruments for ages - no money in it

sad
Wrong on several occasions,


£189 of improvements you say, well for a Synt or effect VST you could EASILY pay more than that for 1 vst. Let alone a new synth, and several FX as well as several new features.

People do buy software or there would be no companies. Some musicians ARE making money, whether that be scoring for Films, Theatre work, or general release/streaming. Yes some people do use pirated copies, but they will always be behind with updates etc.

Yes its easier to make music like everyone else, but that is NOT a software fault, thats a USER fault. As for Native Instruments, well they just released a new FX pack, comprising 3 new fx , phasis, choral & flair, let along released symphony collection a couple months ago AND have been working on sounds.com, as well as several major developments for Maschine and Komplete Kontrol on the near horizon.

Sorry to burst your blinkered bubble, but BANG.
To be honest I don't care - I just won't upgrade

I didn't say it was a software fault

Don't use the word "occasions" out of context - it's embarrassing, synt has an "h" on the end

I was releasing "music" since 1993
At no point has anyone said you have to upgrade, that is a personal choice, I was merely pointing out some factual misdemeaners in your post.

Ah out comes the real SARRF LARNDAN keyboard warrior in you.

Definition of occasion:
He has, on occasion, made a small mistake. As defined by Cambridge dictionary, and as such used perfectly in context.
So just maybe on this occasion you are incorrect, as for the spelling, oh wow that it... On that occasion I misspell it slightly, simple mistake, but hey whatever makes you feel better. But then again, I can admit my own mistakes.

1993, is that all?
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

Tarekith
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:23 pm

Play nice everyone, no need to get snarky on the forums. Thanks.

sowhoso
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by sowhoso » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:35 pm

lol

lately, on these forums some get away with snarkiness with impunity (depends on your "value" to the community)

beam me up Scotty

Tarekith
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Tarekith » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:51 pm

We don’t catch every comment here, but if you see something you feel is inappropriate for the forums just let one of the mods know.

InLight-Tone
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by InLight-Tone » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:15 pm

ian_halsall wrote:I know there are lots of improvements - just not 189 quid of improvements

it's not their fault - nobody buys music software any more because:

a) everyone pirates software
b) you can't make any money from music any more because
i) it's easy to copy it
ii) it's easy to make music like everyone else in 10 minutes

and it's probaby the last upgrade they will do

Check the Native Instruments website - no new instruments for ages - no money in it

sad
Well, you're basically arguing for YOUR limitations. The landscape has changed and will continue to do so, but the ability to thrive is up to you and you alone. With your attitude, you better hang on to that "job"/prison sentence...

Mark Williams
Posts: 226
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Mark Williams » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:39 pm

Only a few more days til release :)
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL, Waves Audio Beta tester
Get 10% off Waves Plugins https://www.waves.com/r/r0z5tks

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Machinesworking » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:38 pm

OK so I'm upgrading for sure, but it's not because I'm happy with what's offered up front.
From what I can tell with most DAW developers upgrades at .0 are all about glitter sparkly unicorn things that catch new users.
I'm lucky in that all the DAWs I've used have been really good about adding in features to updates that veteran users want. Live from 9.0 to now has been huge, I expect 10 will be the same.

Yeah happy wouldn't be the word at all. The SysEx in Max thing got me all excited until it was obvious that if you wanted the sort of ability that DP or Logic etc. have of storing a patch from a hardware synth in a song, (the basic reason for SysEx besides automating certain older synths), you would have to code it yourself in Max. This sort of thing is exactly why some people were not too happy with Max being integrated into Live. There was this feeling that certain core functionality features in Live were going to be overlooked in favor of having people familiar with Max/MSP roll it themselves, and that's happening.

I'm currently working in Logic for most of my songwriting for the above reason among others, Live remains the best solution for performance for the way I work, and the improvements to Push 2 in version 10 are well worth the upgrade, but if you don't own Push I get why you wouldn't be super thrilled with the current list of features. I think those upset though should keep in mind that Live seems to now be on a 3-4 year upgrade cycle with a good list of things that would be paid upgrade features offered in updates over that period of time. The downside is of course if a specific feature is critical to you like MPE support for instance, but that's why there's other DAWs, you don't have to be DAW monogamous! :)

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:15 am

Machinesworking wrote:I'm currently working in Logic for most of my songwriting for the above reason among others, Live remains the best solution for performance for the way I work, and the improvements to Push 2 in version 10 are well worth the upgrade…
(Side-bar) I'm just curious if you use a somewhat similar controller to the Push 2 in Logic and if so which one(s)? How are you controlling Logic? (/Side-bar)
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:16 am

Been playing with the Wavetable synth this weekend. I wasn't at all bothered about it before because I spent the 90s with wavetable synths and wasn't excited by them. Of course I also bought a bunch of Waldorf soft wavetable synths throught the years but they all still sounded like the 90s to me. Grainy and thin. Wavetable and Granular are not my favourite kinds of synthesis.

So I think the Wavetable synth is undersold by the name.
Yes, the oscillators are wavetable based - but that's not the main selling point of the synth to me. Thankfully the "FX" parameters on those oscillators (FM, Classic, Modern) do help shape the wavetables away from that cheesy wavetable sound.
Beyond that the most interesting part to me is the modulation matrix. I've always like the Propellerheads Thor synth for the nice modulation matrix, and this is perhaps better than that one. Being able to map parameters such as "aftertouch to env 3 sustain", "velocity on Env 2 decay", etc... These are the kinds of features I need in a synth.

Secondly the dual filter routings (Serial, Parallel, and split).
I'm a long time MS20 abuser where the hipass/lopass is a core part of the sound, and a staple sound is the MS20 bass - where a simple wave can be overdriven into a resonant Hipass with keytracking and this is then fed into the Lowpass with env modulation. This routing gives a massive tracked bass boost on the low end with saturated harmonics. No other Ableton synth can do that. It's a major deal for certain kinds of sound design. Especially when paired with the matrix.
I think they should have gone with a better name for it. There's probably a reason that big softsynths get weird names. The Wavetables are not really the big selling point, although they look nice in a promo shot.

It is however BRUTAL on CPU usage and will have to be frozen at every step of the way. That's not so good, but anyway.
That's my thoughts on "Wavetable"

Stefan Jantschek
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Stefan Jantschek » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:11 am

Angstrom wrote:Been playing with the Wavetable synth this weekend. I wasn't at all bothered about it before because I spent the 90s with wavetable synths and wasn't excited by them. Of course I also bought a bunch of Waldorf soft wavetable synths throught the years but they all still sounded like the 90s to me. Grainy and thin. Wavetable and Granular are not my favourite kinds of synthesis.

So I think the Wavetable synth is undersold by the name.
Yes, the oscillators are wavetable based - but that's not the main selling point of the synth to me. Thankfully the "FX" parameters on those oscillators (FM, Classic, Modern) do help shape the wavetables away from that cheesy wavetable sound.
Beyond that the most interesting part to me is the modulation matrix. I've always like the Propellerheads Thor synth for the nice modulation matrix, and this is perhaps better than that one. Being able to map parameters such as "aftertouch to env 3 sustain", "velocity on Env 2 decay", etc... These are the kinds of features I need in a synth.

Secondly the dual filter routings (Serial, Parallel, and split).
I'm a long time MS20 abuser where the hipass/lopass is a core part of the sound, and a staple sound is the MS20 bass - where a simple wave can be overdriven into a resonant Hipass with keytracking and this is then fed into the Lowpass with env modulation. This routing gives a massive tracked bass boost on the low end with saturated harmonics. No other Ableton synth can do that. It's a major deal for certain kinds of sound design. Especially when paired with the matrix.
I think they should have gone with a better name for it. There's probably a reason that big softsynths get weird names. The Wavetables are not really the big selling point, although they look nice in a promo shot.

It is however BRUTAL on CPU usage and will have to be frozen at every step of the way. That's not so good, but anyway.
That's my thoughts on "Wavetable"
Steve, I was so shortly before writing almost the same words as a reply of your Beta-Forum comment.
You said, you touched Wavetable once and lost interest immediately.
I could not believe that...;-)

But, would you have trusted me?
Or trust me now that you might make similar experiences with Push 2?
Guess why I can tell... :lol:

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Machinesworking » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:33 am

Stromkraft wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:I'm currently working in Logic for most of my songwriting for the above reason among others, Live remains the best solution for performance for the way I work, and the improvements to Push 2 in version 10 are well worth the upgrade…
(Side-bar) I'm just curious if you use a somewhat similar controller to the Push 2 in Logic and if so which one(s)? How are you controlling Logic? (/Side-bar)
Working on getting the SL MKII up and running, some oddness's in the control surface support to work out.
I bought a Slate Raven Mti2 two years ago when I had some extra cash, haven't gotten around to getting the Logic template for it, the Live one isn't that great when you compare it to Push 2, (oddly enough Live is still a PITA with touch screens, although better these days), but the one for DP is super useful.
The Logic one is more like a shell that fits directly over parts of the mixer, no generic mixer like Live and DP get, so it's super natural feeling to work with.

(Side Side-bar) I'm starting to work with someone who only has Fruity Loops, vocalist type. So I'm going even further into ridiculousness DAW slut wise and having both of us learn Reaper as a way of sharing songs to rough out. I'm always probably going to stick them in Live for performance, Push is too purty for the glowy lights and good things jumping around songs wise, but Reaper will be where Live and Logic and old DP tracks end up so the vocalist will have a chance to quickly arrange them without spending $400 for the privilege. :x Reaper has become a BEAST!! BTW!! :x :x :x

I might be only using Logic to mess with my archive of songs in it from years ago if I get too enamored with Reaper, no Raven support though.... :( (/Side Side-bar)

Angstrom
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Re: Ableton Live 10 - whats your favourite new features?

Post by Angstrom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:53 am

Stefan Jantschek wrote: Steve, I was so shortly before writing almost the same words as a reply of your Beta-Forum comment.
You said, you touched Wavetable once and lost interest immediately.
I could not believe that...;-)

But, would you have trusted me?
Or trust me now that you might make similar experiences with Push 2?
Guess why I can tell... :lol:

Well, to be more accurate my earlier beta comment was
I tried this synth out a few times and while it looks and sounds nice - the CPU usage made it unusable in a real world song for me and consequently I've not opened it since about beta 2.
And I would stand by this. The monophonic bass sounds I've made have peaked around 18 on the CPU meter, and the 2 osc pad sounds with 3 voice unison hit 60% and the audio breaks up. These would be unusuable. Even a basic pad (without unison) might be 40% and so building a song with 20 more tracks with other VSTs and processed audio would take that beyond 60% before I got anywhere close to a mix.
So ... In both my comments I said the same thing : "it sounds nice, but is unfortunately too resource intensive for me to use". In my recent post I said I'd need to freeze it.


As for Push. Of course it's a good music device, as is a guitar or a bassoon. The value of every instrument is weighed by its utility to the individual. Will a hiphop artist make use of a Bassoon? No. The Bassoon does not have utility to that musician, so to that Hiphop artist it would be a bad investment of capital.

I don't have much spare cash so speculatively spending £600 on a controller which I may or may not gel with is outside my comfort zone. As a contrast - I bought the upgrade to Live even though it is quite expensive, I did it because I know for sure I will use it every day. The Live upgrade ibecomes a cup of coffee purchase over its 4 year lifespan.

But just like the Bassoon, the Push has the capability to lie untouched by a player who does not gel with it. How does a person find out if they gel with it? They spend a spare £600 and find out!
Many people bought a Push and found it didn't suit their needs, so they either stacked it in a corner or sold it at a loss.
No thanks.

I agree Push is a good controller, but I have strong doubts it is good for me.
I might be wrong, but I'm not going to pay £600 to find out.

As an aside, 25 years ago I bought a bass for £30 despite not playing bass. I found I like playing bass and still play that same bass today. I wonder if a Push controller will have the same lifespan. Or will it be more like the iOmega Zip drive I bought the same year.
Last edited by Angstrom on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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