CPU usage in Live 10

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
FiveHandsMusic
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by FiveHandsMusic » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:45 pm

Since upgrading to Live 10, my CPU usage has been through the roof. I was maxing out my laptops cpu with one drum rack, one 808, and one mono synth from serum. 5 sounds playing on 4 bar loop, moderate to no effects.

My laptop has an i7 7700k running in performance mode, hooked up to the wall. I am also using a complete audio 6. My older desktop with an i7 4790k doesn't come close to this amount of CPU usage. Everything else on the laptop is running perfectly.

Stromkraft
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:46 pm

All of these posts about 9/10 performance differences makes me think we really need some improved ways/tools to evaluate Live performance.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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buj818
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by buj818 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:57 pm

Stromkraft wrote:All of these posts about 8/10 performance differences makes me think we really need some improved ways/tools to evaluate Live performance.
.

Agreed. They way I feel is if your machine meets/exceeds Live 10 requirements, there should be no reason so many are having the same problem. Being there is, and many of the stories are extremely similar, it's simply unacceptable from a customer standpoint that Ableton is silent on the issue. Many have stated they sent reports/tickets to Ableton, yet nobody is hearing back. I'ma start making phone calls and see how much dust I can kick up. It's a great product....when it works.

Stromkraft
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:44 am

buj818 wrote:Many have stated they sent reports/tickets to Ableton, yet nobody is hearing back.
Given my experience with reports Ableton do respond. Sometimes it will take a while, but they will get back to you. Quite often they have excellent advice too.
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soundsliketree
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by soundsliketree » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:54 am

One thing I've noticed is that I'll sometimes be able to play one of these sets (that experience the CPU spikes) for a few minutes before the problem begins. In my Mac's Activity Monitor CPU Usage window, when the set is playing smoothly, cores 1, 3, 5 & 7 are active (about 1/3-1/2 way filled), but no activity in 2, 4, 6 & 8. Then when the spiking and crackling starts 2,4,6,8 all of the sudden become active (at a level slightly less than the odd-numbered ones).

I would send a screen shot, but I can't figure out how to upload images to this message (help appreciated).

Still no response from Ableton support.
soundsliketree wrote:Please excuse me for not combing through all the pages of this topic - I'm short on time at the moment...
I have a couple questions for anyone also experiencing this sporadic, crippling CPU spiking issue in Live 10:
1) In your conversations with Ableton support, have they acknowledged this as an issue that they're aware of?
2) Have any of you noticed consistent correlation with graphics-heavy plug-in GUIs? Jury's still out for me on that.
3) Have any of you fixed it? :)

FYI, my system:
2015 MBP, OSX 10.13.3, Live 10.0.1
UAD Apollo Twin with Octo Satellite
I tend to use a lot of FabFilter and UAD plug-ins.

I can confirm that the exact same set opened in 9.7.5 is stable but experiences the CPU spiking in 10.0.1.

I'm investigating using Activity Monitor (CPU tab, usage and history) - will report if/when I notice anything interesting.
I've started an email thread with Ableton support. I'll post if/when I learn anything.

Stromkraft
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:49 am

soundsliketree wrote:One thing I've noticed is that I'll sometimes be able to play one of these sets (that experience the CPU spikes) for a few minutes before the problem begins. In my Mac's Activity Monitor CPU Usage window, when the set is playing smoothly, cores 1, 3, 5 & 7 are active (about 1/3-1/2 way filled), but no activity in 2, 4, 6 & 8. Then when the spiking and crackling starts 2,4,6,8 all of the sudden become active (at a level slightly less than the odd-numbered ones).
The even number "cores" are likely virtual cores. Basically virtual cores allow concurrent scheduling of two processes per core and resource sharing between these. When tracks are distributed among available cores (a track runs on one core), I'd assume only real cores would be interesting to look at. On the other hand the OS probably presents all cores, real and virtual, to the software asking for these as real cores. I'm not sure about this though. If this would be true I'd guess you'd see activity in all cores if you have more tracks than cores.

I need to read up on how to analyze multiple core use better. I think there might be some useful developer tools that could help.
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soundsliketree
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by soundsliketree » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:25 pm

Has anyone experiencing this issue tried the current L10 beta, and has the issue been resolved/different with the beta?

(I have not tried the beta. I've got a heavy workload this week and am back on L9 for dependability.)

soundsliketree
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by soundsliketree » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:26 pm

In my thread with support@ableton.com about this issue, after penetrating the initial change-buffer-size/trash-prefs/reset-Live ideas, and emphasizing the number of us experiencing these issues (directing them to this forum thread), I received the following response:
I read the forum thread last week and can confirm that a few of these issues/inquiries have landed in our inbox. I can assure you we are keeping track of these tickets as they come in, and are actively trying to identify bugs and fix them. While we are in contact with our devs regularly, I don't have any indication as to what the hierarchy of Live 10's know issues/bugs looks like.
As you can imagine, we take CPU and performance issues very seriously. But, as discussed last week, it can be difficult to pinpoint these issues due to the massive differences in most users' systems and setups. Thus, I ask that you allow our devs some time to patch up these issues.
Thanks for your patience!
I'm left not knowing whether Ableton considers this a bug. I also don't know what else to try or who else to write.
My current m.o. is to use Live 9 for important projects and just wait on L10 updates. :-|

Does anyone else have any insights or Ableton responses to report on this issue?

Tarekith
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Tarekith » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:16 am

I think that response pretty much sums it up. There's nothing conrete to share with people yet, but Ableton is aware of it and looking into it. This sort of thing gets talked about a lot behind the scenes I've noticed, they definitely would prefer their software works smoothly for everyone. Hard to always nail down specific causes with so many variables at play depending on people's systems and peripherals though. It all gets tracked and improvements made as soon as solutions are found.

Stromkraft
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:23 am

I would think that if any of you have this kind of issue and haven't yet filed a detailed report, that it would be appreciated if you did. Ableton can't fix issues without data.

Basically all you need to is chose "get support" in the help menu and follow the instructions, describe your issue as closely as possible and if you have a set illustrating the issue add this to your report.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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H20nly
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:42 pm

Stromkraft wrote:I would think that if any of you have this kind of issue and haven't yet filed a detailed report, that it would be appreciated if you did. You can't fix issues without data. Basically all you need to is chose "get support" in the help menu and follow the instructions, describe your issue as closely as possible and if you have a set illustrating the issue add this to your report.
+ 1


and be very clear on your system specs and the running software when the issues occur. too much information is better than not enough when searching for a needle in a hay stack.
Stromkraft wrote:H2Only, you are so big. So absolutely huge. Gosh, we’re all really impressed down here I can tell you.

buj818
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by buj818 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:11 pm

I received a reply from ableton today regarding my High CPU Usage. Here is there response. I will update this post later tonight after I make the recommended changes and let y'all know how it worked out for me.


Chandler (Ableton Support)

Mar 28, 10:32 PDT

Hi Brian,

Thanks for reaching out! I'm sorry to hear about your problems with Live.

Before we begin troubleshooting your CPU issues, we should first address some serious vulnerabilities in your current file management.
Move all of your Live Project folders out of "Documents/Ableton/Live Recordings".
This is a temporary folder created for the purpose of storing audio that has not yet been saved into a Live Project. As a result, the Live Projects you store there can be easily deleted without warning, and might slow down Live down as a whole.
We generally don't recommend saving multiple Live Sets (".als" files) into a single Project folder.
It tends to create especially large file caches that flood Live's file indexer.

For more details on how to manage your files, I kindly refer you to our File Management FAQs.


--

Once you finish moving all of your content out of the Live Recordings folder, try the steps below. If the CPU issues you're experiencing are related to the way you've nested your projects, this will be a good way to tell.

To test this:
Quit all other running programs, except for Live.
Open one of your "slower" Live Sets.
Play the Set all the way through, making note of the CPU performance.
File ? Save a Copy... [Select a neutral location, like your Desktop. This will create a new Project folder].
File ? Collect All and Save [Be sure to enable all options in the dialogue window that appears].
Quit & Reopen Live.
Open the new Live Set from your desktop.
Play the new Set, and compare the performance.

===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== =====

Let me know if this advice was helpful!
If not, please respond with an updated Live Status Report to help us identify the issue.
I'll keep your case open until the issue is resolved. =]

Stromkraft
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:46 pm

buj818 wrote:I received a reply from ableton today regarding my High CPU Usage. Here is there response. I will update this post later tonight after I make the recommended changes and let y'all know how it worked out for me.
Great. I think it will be easier for others to follow if you summarize what is suggested to you and what you try. Re-posting word for word is a little overkill and I actually believe you're not necessarily allowed to do that without asking. Generally relevant quotes are probably OK.

From the suggestion I feel all the people not up to understanding project folder structure — I know a few — are worth some functionality for getting feedback from Live when saving sets.

One of the more valuable habits to pick up early is to save all new sets to one "Live projects" folder, containing your Live projects. This is where a new project folder will be created automatically when saving for the first time. After this first save, sets with new unique names will be saved into this project folder, unless you go up to the parent folder. When you start a new project save into this "Live projects" folder and not into any existing project folder.

Good structure probably can't hurt performance. So why not adopt it?
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H20nly
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:59 pm

as far as a cause for this issue goes... that sounds like a good one. if a cache is too full you often get odd behavior. this is true of temporary internet files too, which is a good every day example of a similar issue.

i would not be surprised at all if this change fixes the issue for you buj818

*fingers crossed*

good luck

buj818
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Re: CPU usage in Live 10

Post by buj818 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:42 am

H20nly wrote:as far as a cause for this issue goes... that sounds like a good one. if a cache is too full you often get odd behavior. this is true of temporary internet files too, which is a good every day example of a similar issue.

i would not be surprised at all if this change fixes the issue for you buj818

*fingers crossed*

good luck
I went ahead and followed all his advice, as well as deleting a lot of unused recordings and such. Cleaning out about 600MB of junk I don't use anymore. Organized everything and am left with only 1 project I'm currently working on. I ran and compared the difference. CPU usage, on average, dropped only 5-6%. Doesn't peak at 103% anymore, however it still peaks in the low 90s, more than enough to experience the crackling. Ugh. Thanks for all the input guys, but it looks like my only hope is for a Live 10 update that addresses (hopefully) many of these high CPU usage issues.

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