Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
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Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Hi!
I have question regarding the basslines on a track.
I often notice that the different bass notes have different sound behavior, depending on which note gets played. Now I'm working on a song where the bass plays many notes, and when the note B2 gets played it sounds good, but when it goes up to C#3 the sound gets a lot "woofier" (if that's a word), even if the note is higher. Like it's adding more low frequencies or something. Really strange.
I'm no sound engineer, so I'm not sure what to do with this. But is there any filter or something that can fix this? I have used EQ Eight already, but I cant EQ every note
I hope my explanation is understandable, and that somebody has a solution for this.
I have question regarding the basslines on a track.
I often notice that the different bass notes have different sound behavior, depending on which note gets played. Now I'm working on a song where the bass plays many notes, and when the note B2 gets played it sounds good, but when it goes up to C#3 the sound gets a lot "woofier" (if that's a word), even if the note is higher. Like it's adding more low frequencies or something. Really strange.
I'm no sound engineer, so I'm not sure what to do with this. But is there any filter or something that can fix this? I have used EQ Eight already, but I cant EQ every note
I hope my explanation is understandable, and that somebody has a solution for this.
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Are you using a sample or an instrument? I'm guessing this is a MIDI track with an instrument on it. If so, what instrument and how is it setup, especially the preset name if it has one.
"Watching the Sky" ~ A 4-track EP of piano, strings, and Native American flute
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Thanks for the quick reply!Richie Witch wrote:Are you using a sample or an instrument? I'm guessing this is a MIDI track with an instrument on it. If so, what instrument and how is it setup, especially the preset name if it has one.
The instrument is Bass-Analogics from from the Synth Bass folder. So it's a MIDI track
Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
It could just be your monitors not being very flat on the low end, or not having powerful enough amps to recreate the the louder, deeper notes.
tarekith
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
It might be, but I think it's something I've done wrong because when I listen to songs by "professional" artists, the bass always sounds goodTarekith wrote:It could just be your monitors not being very flat on the low end, or not having powerful enough amps to recreate the the louder, deeper notes.
Last edited by Christian_R on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Good point.
tarekith
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https://tarekith.com
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Could be that it's just a "too clean" bassline and it has no harmonics.
As Tarekith mentioned, it could still be a case of your monitors are not resonating or producing bass evenly over a range. Could also be your room. You may find when you move around in your room with a note sustained that in certain locations it sounds much louder than others.
Bass will bounce off surfaces with a lot of force. It will also cause those surfaces to vibrate (resonance) so when the signal from the bass hits a surface that is vibrating and it hits when the vibration is not within a time division of the wave it will cause a collision which will essentially null out some of the signal. Imagine a rock thrown in a calm pool. The waves travel to the edge, bounce off and come back affecting the standing waves still there. Physics is wonderful so we can apply that same visual concept to audio. What you are hearing is those waves hitting the edges of your monitors, or walls, or roof or just the actual cones of the woofer aren't all that great and some of the sound at certain frequencies doesn't match the speed that other things are resonating and gets nulled somewhere.
Now, why does a "Professional" track not have this issue? Well for a start you will be hearing the full track not just the bass and second the track would have been produced probably by people with a lot of knowledge in the area, a lot of expensive gear and monitoring environment and a combined knowledge base of probably decades. They would know exactly what frequencies are not pushing where they should and through EQ, saturation, harmonics, noise and a plethora of other techniques they would process the low end so it would sound as expected and make sure it isn't affecting other signals within the mix.
Low end is very hard to tame and understand properly and it gets even harder if your audio setup isn't really suitable to produce a reliable reference. I struggle myself and I have a very good understanding of the physics and technical aspects of that side, I don't have a high end understanding of the production side and I struggle sometimes to get the bass impact I want, even with 20 years of "experience".
Experiment until you get some better results. It will add to your experience and help you understand more but it WILL take you time because you need your ears to learn.
As Tarekith mentioned, it could still be a case of your monitors are not resonating or producing bass evenly over a range. Could also be your room. You may find when you move around in your room with a note sustained that in certain locations it sounds much louder than others.
Bass will bounce off surfaces with a lot of force. It will also cause those surfaces to vibrate (resonance) so when the signal from the bass hits a surface that is vibrating and it hits when the vibration is not within a time division of the wave it will cause a collision which will essentially null out some of the signal. Imagine a rock thrown in a calm pool. The waves travel to the edge, bounce off and come back affecting the standing waves still there. Physics is wonderful so we can apply that same visual concept to audio. What you are hearing is those waves hitting the edges of your monitors, or walls, or roof or just the actual cones of the woofer aren't all that great and some of the sound at certain frequencies doesn't match the speed that other things are resonating and gets nulled somewhere.
Now, why does a "Professional" track not have this issue? Well for a start you will be hearing the full track not just the bass and second the track would have been produced probably by people with a lot of knowledge in the area, a lot of expensive gear and monitoring environment and a combined knowledge base of probably decades. They would know exactly what frequencies are not pushing where they should and through EQ, saturation, harmonics, noise and a plethora of other techniques they would process the low end so it would sound as expected and make sure it isn't affecting other signals within the mix.
Low end is very hard to tame and understand properly and it gets even harder if your audio setup isn't really suitable to produce a reliable reference. I struggle myself and I have a very good understanding of the physics and technical aspects of that side, I don't have a high end understanding of the production side and I struggle sometimes to get the bass impact I want, even with 20 years of "experience".
Experiment until you get some better results. It will add to your experience and help you understand more but it WILL take you time because you need your ears to learn.
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
All of the points above are great - could be a bunch of things. Different frequencies resonate differently, which is why some notes can poke out a lot more than others (even if they're higher - they still might boom a bit more).
EQ would certainly help tame the woofier (love that word) note, but you could also try a little compression to tame that beast, or maybe even some multiband compression so you're just compressing the woof woof frequencies?
EQ would certainly help tame the woofier (love that word) note, but you could also try a little compression to tame that beast, or maybe even some multiband compression so you're just compressing the woof woof frequencies?
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
The beginners focus on BASS is very similar to sweet wine.
The first-timer loves it, the expert knows what gives you headache.
The first-timer loves it, the expert knows what gives you headache.
Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
A dummy question: what about resonance and cutoff settings?
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
What about them?miyaru wrote:A dummy question: what about resonance and cutoff settings?
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Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
The behavior of the bass sound might also be caused by the settings of the instrument itself, e. g. the Analog synth has a "Key" parameter that can modulate the filter cutoff frequency, and this might be set up so you get a lower frequency when you play keys with a higher pitch.jestermgee wrote:What about them?miyaru wrote:A dummy question: what about resonance and cutoff settings?
(I tried to check this, but I couldn't find the Bass-Analogics preset, must be in some pack I have not installed.)
Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
If the differend sounding note is on a steep resonant point, it might sound differend from the rest......miyaru wrote:dummy question: what about resonance and cutoff settings?
What about them?
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason 12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, ESI M4U eX, Reason 12, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8 and Monitor Station V2, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Yamaha RM1x
Re: Basslines: Different behavior on different notes? Help!
Sidetracking, but anyway: this is one of those things that often separates professional productions from hobbyist ones. When working on a problematic sound (that you still want to use), people tend to assume that you "can't EQ every note", or "can't automate every syllable of a vocal through the whole song", or "can't make 20 duplicates of a track each processed slightly differently depending on the phrase" ... You get the idea.Christian_R wrote:I have used EQ Eight already, but I cant EQ every note
If there's an _actual need_ for it, a professional routinely and literally automates every syllable individually, equalizes every note individually, and so on. It's just an "oh well, I guess I gotta do that ---> then does it" situation. In other words, what ever it takes to make the track sound nice and flowing again.
So the solution of how to fix this is actually in front of you: if you already know what sticks out like it shouldn't, you also know how to correct it after the fact. Some notes sound too woofy? Bring the woofiness of those notes down. Heh. Yeah I know, it's of course a different matter what is causing the uneven instrument sound in the first place. That can be down to a lot of things, and if something can be done to it that way, it's naturally better to try correcting it at the source first. One of the likely ones is indeed a filter structure that is setup in such a way you are hitting a resonance when playing certain notes.
When in need of a quicker fix, and no realistic way to do it in the sound source, my personal go-to is the Fabfilter Pro-MB.