Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Post Reply
Gifplaat
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:13 am

Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Gifplaat » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:54 pm

I have a question about the loop brace in the sample editor in Live 10.
I work a lot with samples and like to hear loops within an audioclip by dragging the loop brace around while the track is playing. (I usually work in arrangement view so the audioclip is played from the arrangement)

I've noticed that when I drag the loop brace, the editing screen sometimes automatically zooms to match the size of the loop brace. This is annoying because I like to have the full overview of my sample to see witch part I want to loop. Every time when this happens I need to zoom out again, and figure where the loop brace was before it automatically zoomed in.

The strange thing is that this doesn't happen every time, so it's hard to detect where it exactly goes wrong. And also, this has never occurred to me in Live 9 and older versions.
I wonder if any of you guys here have the same problem or is my software just glitching out?

Many thanks in advance!

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:18 pm

Gifplaat wrote: I wonder if any of you guys here have the same problem or is my software just glitching out?
It's a feature, not a bug! I'm not 100% sure how that auto-zoom is intended to work though.

Actually, this auto-zoom doesn't happen to me in 10.0.1 release. Which version are you on?
Live 10.0.1 Release notes.
Make some music!

Gifplaat
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:13 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Gifplaat » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:20 pm

Hi Stromkraft. I know that auto-zoom is a feature but I don't think it should happen when I'm dragging the loop brace around.
I kinda like the clip zooming in arrangement view (press z), but the auto-zoom in the sample editor is in my opinion not really useful and it only slows me down in my process. I wish that there is a way to turn that off...

Im in 10.0.01 release by the way.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:16 am

Gifplaat wrote:the auto-zoom in the sample editor
It's actually an audio clip editor. Viewing it as a sample editor probably risk making you disappointed in the long run, even if you can prepare samples in clips and the boundaries are fuzzy.
Gifplaat wrote:Hi Stromkraft. I know that auto-zoom is a feature but I don't think it should happen when I'm dragging the loop brace around.
I kinda like the clip zooming in arrangement view (press z), but the auto-zoom in the sample editor is in my opinion not really useful and it only slows me down in my process. I wish that there is a way to turn that off...
I'm actually not sure this is the feature I was thinking about.
We're not talking about selecting time in one clip on the arrangement time line? You do refer to the loop brace in the audio clip itself, right?

If so, given we're both in 10.0.1 and I don't get auto-zoom when moving the loop brace about by grabbing with my track pad and holding down, it would probably be useful to learn exactly how you do this and with what pointer tool. You say auto-zoom is intermittent, but is it really? If you trace back what you did once this happen maybe you can get some insights? I do wonder if you perhaps could be triggering some scroll zoom function when moving about? Do you hold down any modifier keys in your operations?
Make some music!

Gifplaat
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:13 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Gifplaat » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:39 pm

Stromkraft wrote: It's actually an audio clip editor. Viewing it as a sample editor probably risk making you disappointed in the long run, even if you can prepare samples in clips and the boundaries are fuzzy.
I wanted to be thoroughly so I looked up at the Ableton "info view menu". It refers the audio editor section as "Sample editor" when my mouse is placed at the editor.
Stormkraft wrote: You say auto-zoom is intermittent, but is it really? If you trace back what you did once this happen maybe you can get some insights? I do wonder if you perhaps could be triggering some scroll zoom function when moving about? Do you hold down any modifier keys in your operations?
That's the hard part, since this just happens so randomly. I work with the mouse and the trackpad (not simultaneously) and it occurs with both devices. I do not hold down any modifier keys other than the left mouse button while dragging. Maybe I have to try to re-install Ableton and see if this helps..

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:59 pm

Gifplaat wrote:
Stromkraft wrote: It's actually an audio clip editor. Viewing it as a sample editor probably risk making you disappointed in the long run, even if you can prepare samples in clips and the boundaries are fuzzy.
I wanted to be thoroughly so I looked up at the Ableton "info view menu". It refers the audio editor section as "Sample editor" when my mouse is placed at the editor.
I will have to accept that then. Not the first time I disagree with Ableton on what they call things. To me the "sample editor" is OcenAudio and Audacity that I set as external editors in Live preferences.
Gifplaat wrote: I work with the mouse and the trackpad (not simultaneously) and it occurs with both devices. I do not hold down any modifier keys other than the left mouse button while dragging. Maybe I have to try to re-install Ableton and see if this helps..
You can try that but I don't think that is the issue. Look into deleting all preferences files. Sometimes this helps.
Make some music!

deaddisneyy
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: NY/Amsterdam

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by deaddisneyy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:19 pm

This same thing happens to me, seemingly randomly as well. Cant figure out why sometimes dragging the loop brace will trigger a snapping zoom-to-loop length, and other times not. :|

Another thing - is there still no way to move the loop brace and have the start marker pinned to the beginning of the loop as you move it around? If you use up/down arrow keys this works, but dragging the loop brace with the mouse has the start marker behaving very strange, as usual (ie, stuck in the middle of the loop brace somewhere)

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:24 pm

deaddisneyy wrote:If you use up/down arrow keys this works, but dragging the loop brace with the mouse has the start marker behaving very strange, as usual (ie, stuck in the middle of the loop brace somewhere)
up/down arrow keys ?
As far as I understand the start marker when moving the loop brace is fixed because this isn't affecting playback.

With it selected and using the left/right arrow keys will move it with the loop, which makes the playback jump.

A modifier key to reverse the function might be useful.
Make some music!

deaddisneyy
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: NY/Amsterdam

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by deaddisneyy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:26 pm

Stromkraft wrote:up/down arrow keys ?
What I mean is that if you have an audio clip in the arrangement, select it to get to the "sample editor" then you drag a small, lets say 1/8th note selection and loop it, you can use the up/down arrow keys on the keyboard to move the loop brace in 1/8 note increments (it will vary with the size of the selection you've made).

If you do this, the start marker always snaps to the beginning of the loop brace each time its moved. If you click and drag the loop brace with the mouse to move in smaller increments, the start marker behaves all wonky.

Edit - What I guess I'm getting at is it would be really frickin nice if you had the option to select the start marker AS WELL as the loop brace and move them as one unit with the mouse to get precise adjustments without having to make 2 separate moves (first loop brace, then start marker)

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:53 pm

deaddisneyy wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:up/down arrow keys ?
What I mean is that if you have an audio clip in the arrangement, select it to get to the "sample editor" then you drag a small, lets say 1/8th note selection and loop it, you can use the up/down arrow keys on the keyboard to move the loop brace in 1/8 note increments (it will vary with the size of the selection you've made).
Do you actually mean the Sample Editor below the timeline or do you mean the clip as on the timeline in Arrangement View?

On the timeline I can grab a selection and move it with the left/right arrow. It will move according to the grid quantize settings and not according to the selection. Up and down move to the adjacent track.

In the Sample Editor I can make selections and affect the range of that with the left/right arrows. Up and down does nothing for me. Live 10 on macOS 10.12.

How do you select the area you want to move around?
Make some music!

deaddisneyy
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:17 pm
Location: NY/Amsterdam

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by deaddisneyy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:16 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
deaddisneyy wrote:
Stromkraft wrote:up/down arrow keys ?
What I mean is that if you have an audio clip in the arrangement, select it to get to the "sample editor" then you drag a small, lets say 1/8th note selection and loop it, you can use the up/down arrow keys on the keyboard to move the loop brace in 1/8 note increments (it will vary with the size of the selection you've made).
Do you actually mean the Sample Editor below the timeline or do you mean the clip as on the timeline in Arrangement View?

On the timeline I can grab a selection and move it with the left/right arrow. It will move according to the grid quantize settings and not according to the selection. Up and down move to the adjacent track.

In the Sample Editor I can make selections and affect the range of that with the left/right arrows. Up and down does nothing for me. Live 10 on macOS 10.12.

How do you select the area you want to move around?
Yes I mean in the sample editor below the timeline, but once you loop something there it reflects across the whole region of audio in the arrangement as long as you don't shorten the clip in the arrangement - let me break down the process so we're on the same page. Im on the same setup as you.

Drag a loop or some audio into the arrangement (that is at least 2 bars long for this purpose), make sure loop is turned on, double click it to get to the detailed "sample editor" view.
Then highlight a section with your mouse (say 1/2 bar), and command+L to loop it. Now this is where the problem lies... ***Make sure the loop brace is selected, and when you press up and down it should now move in whatever increment you set your loop to, forwards or backwards. The start marker gets moved along with this jumping selection to the beginning of the loop brace every time. Now try to move the loop brace backwards in say 16th note increments with your mouse. You will see the loop brace moving as it should, but the start marker stays where it is until the loop brace moves past it, then it "catches" and jumps backwards in time by an amount determined by your loop size. Now move the opposite way with your mouse... the same thing happens.

What I am asking for is a way to select both so that when I move the loop brace, even by a 16th note, the start marker follows, or wondering if that is a possibility.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Broken loop brace in sample editor in Live 10?

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:07 am

deaddisneyy wrote:[

Drag a loop or some audio into the arrangement (that is at least 2 bars long for this purpose), make sure loop is turned on, double click it to get to the detailed "sample editor" view.
Then highlight a section with your mouse (say 1/2 bar), and command+L to loop it. Now this is where the problem lies... ***Make sure the loop brace is selected, and when you press up and down it should now move in whatever increment you set your loop to, forwards or backwards. The start marker gets moved along with this jumping selection to the beginning of the loop brace every time. Now try to move the loop brace backwards in say 16th note increments with your mouse. You will see the loop brace moving as it should, but the start marker stays where it is until the loop brace moves past it, then it "catches" and jumps backwards in time by an amount determined by your loop size. Now move the opposite way with your mouse... the same thing happens.

What I am asking for is a way to select both so that when I move the loop brace, even by a 16th note, the start marker follows, or wondering if that is a possibility.
Well, now I got this down. Thanks! I don't think I knew of this before.

I discovered if holding Cmd (Ctrl on PC I'd assume) you move the end instead. I also tried this with a MIDI clip and there the start marker is moved with the loop brace, so this is inconsistent behavior. So you'd like this to be the same for audio clips? That would make sense.
Make some music!

Post Reply