Playback latency

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
majorjoy
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by majorjoy » Fri May 25, 2018 3:04 am

Thanks jestermgee for the super quick reply, Yes I checked out the posts :-).

I did notice Izotope Ozone 7 was one of the potentially 'problematic' plugins in my Live 10 projects so I turned it off (funnily enough Ozone 5 was fine)

I also found that if I had any Waves C3 compressor VST turned on, the Ableton CPU was very high (even at 'res't). A number of other plug ins were also behaving this way (including Ozone as prev mentioned)

So my plug ins are now all turned off and this delay problem persists... it does however improve if I turn the 'delay compensation' menu item (under options) off?

Strangely enough, I'm finding Live 9 has no issues in this regard on same computer setup, so I've had to revert back to L9 in order to get back to work! I have been scoring music to travel videos for many years - so have a video open as well in my projects, so out of sync audio really was doing my head in!

Thanks again and let me know if you have any more thoughts/ideas re a fix. Much appreciated!

jestermgee
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
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Re: Playback latency

Post by jestermgee » Fri May 25, 2018 3:12 am

Try remove those plugins instead of just switching them off. I believe Live still makes a compensation for them if they are loaded. This is a plugin related issue, not Live before you get your complaining hat on.

Ozone has always caused this "issue" as do some other high end plugins. It may differ in seriousness from system to system and with the addition of other plugins in the chain.

Always strive to prove things to yourself. NEVER just assume the issue is something else just because you did not see the issue on another system. A simple test in these cases is to remove all your processor plugins (remove, not just switch off) and test. Start with your Master then your tracks. Of course it doesn't mean you cannot have any FX loaded, but as a proof of where the issue is that will at least let you know that you need to avoid adding that plugin during the production stage.

majorjoy
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by majorjoy » Fri May 25, 2018 3:33 am

Thanks, yes will do! Interesting that just loading them can lead to the compensation- makes sense.

I'm surprised Live 9 seems to deal with Ozone OK on this 'High Sierra' Setup.

I'll keep digging/experimenting....

Cheers from Australia!

jestermgee
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Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am
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Re: Playback latency

Post by jestermgee » Fri May 25, 2018 3:45 am

majorjoy wrote:Thanks, yes will do! Interesting that just loading them can lead to the compensation- makes sense.

I'm surprised Live 9 seems to deal with Ozone OK on this 'High Sierra' Setup.

I'll keep digging/experimenting....

Cheers from Australia!
Ha, i'm in Aust too. Adelaide to be Specific.

Live 9 had this issue too. I had issues with Ozone too. Part the reason I never updated from Ozone 6 was I could get most of what I used it for done with the Live devices, especially when Glue came in with L9.

Your issue could always be something else too, mayu not be this same issue, but that would be evident after running a test on a problem project once you take out all the FX modules.

majorjoy
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by majorjoy » Fri May 25, 2018 4:04 am

Ah- that's why I'm getting such quick replies from you! I was born and lived in Adelaide for 10 years- lovely city and wonderful beaches, but now located in Brisbane.

I've been lucky to avoid these Ozone issues in Live 9 by the sound of it- I have been working on El Capitan for years so not sure what system you were on and if that maybe influenced things. So many variables with systems and plug ins....

Yes, love that Glue Compressor too. Esp the catch peaks master preset - so useful.

I'll run that test on the problem project in the near future and see what happens...

Thanks again- really good to know that I might be closer to solving this issue :-) Hoping that Ozone (as well as a couple of Waves plug ins) might be causing this...

avara
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:58 pm

Re: Playback latency

Post by avara » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:27 am

I have this same issue... Audio coming in around 700ms late compared to visual playback. I don't recall having this problem in Live 9?

Wonder why this happens? I have quite a lot of plugins going but I don't get this issue at all with Logic (working with same AU plugins) or Pro Tools (same plugins but AAX).
I even deleted most processor intensive plugins such as linear phase eq's and so on yet still this visual delay happens...
'reduced latency when monitoring' does not solve this.

The visual delay makes editing audio a nightmare...And this seems to happen in all my projects.

I have maxed out 24core 2014 mac pro & High Sierra 10.13.5. Tried also in Sierra and this problem persists...

Any tips on how to 'sync' visual playback with what I'm hearing?

majorjoy
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by majorjoy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:56 pm

Yes I understand exactly what you are experiencing- super frustrating when trying to edit midi and audio (esp when you have such a speedy setup!).

Clicking off 'delay compensation' (in options) did fix sync of the audio/visual playback for me (I'm not sure why) in Live 10.

For the moment, I'm using Live 9 again, which doesn't have these sync problems on the same High Sierra/imac pro setup for me.

Live support hadn't any suggestions for a fix at this stage, but have asked for a status report from Live 9 and Live 10 to examine the differences I am experiencing between the 2 versions...

Hope that helps

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by Stromkraft » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:47 pm

majorjoy wrote:
For the moment, I'm using Live 9 again, which doesn't have these sync problems on the same High Sierra/imac pro setup for me.
Please share such a set.
Make some music!

avara
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:58 pm

Re: Playback latency

Post by avara » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:24 pm

I tried my computer with another soundcard and did not have this playback delay issue so I deleted ableton preferences and re-installed my UAD Apollo stuff and my problem has mostly gone away. also should have RTFM'd the Adaptiverb ;-) That was creating much of the playback latency also.

Stromkraft
Posts: 7033
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by Stromkraft » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:49 am

avara wrote:…I deleted ableton preferences and re-installed my UAD Apollo stuff …should have RTFM'd the Adaptiverb
Great work, avara! You did the analysis and improved your situation accordingly. :D
Make some music!

SantanaFan
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: Playback latency

Post by SantanaFan » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:25 am

Here is a test video to help debug sync problems with DAW video playback. Each frame of the video displays the performance time stamp (pts) of the frame in milliseconds. Compare the displayed time with the transport time shown in the DAW.
https://vidplayvst.com/downloads/Test-D ... -click.mp4

jlgrimes
Posts: 1513
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Playback latency

Post by jlgrimes » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:58 pm

armas wrote:Currently used Sample rate is 48k, buffer 1024 samples and driver error compensation 0ms. I could use Ableton 9 with 512 samples but Ableton 10 is causing audio jitter with that so can't go lower than that.

That is pretty bad.


I have an mid 2014 MacBook Air and I can get to about 128 samples with no issues at 44.1k (provided I'm not using too many plugins).


That said I haven't really used the Air in a while and pretty sure I haven't upgraded to High Sierra.



I'm now using a high end Windows 10 laptop btw and am getting much better performance than the Mac Book Air (it was only dual core).


I would think on a MB Pro, you should be having decent performance though.

TTOZ
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:05 am

Re: Playback latency

Post by TTOZ » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:46 am

I was demoing Live 10 and can not believe this is STILL an issue.. Will never update my live 9.

I do not understand how people tolerate this..

Obviously it was worked out long ago what the issue is in this topic, but just to reiterate, Live can not sync it's playback cursor with the visual placement of clips on the timeline if one is using a plugin with latency. Even just one plugin with large latency in an entire project, puts the WHOLE thing out of time visually. I mean there's fools on youtube saying how UAD rocks with Live and it couldn't be a worse companion cause every UAD effect has latency. It's pathetic and Bitwig just annihilates you guys in this department. I gave that software such a hard time on release as a live wannabe, but in a few short years they have come leaps and bounds further than ableton could in almost 2 decades!.. It's ridiculous at this stage to put it mildly. perfect latency comp anywhere, visually locked at all times.. i even tested stupid extreme scenarios of automating fab filter maximum latency linear phase mode EQ and it was bang on time audibly and visually. Live is a joke for any serious producer and is only useful as a composition tool or if you are willing to use ZERO latency plugins ONLY, or.. instantly bounce and flatten tracks that you use latent plugins on. I feel insulted they want 300 bucks for me to upgrade for the state it's in. Ableton are incapable of fixing this.. Move to a DAW that handles latency compensation correctly. If people keep putting up with it, Ableton will never get the message and will NEVER fix it. Move away, talk with your wallet like I am, and things might actually change. It's such a shame as it has a lot of strong points and is enjoyable to compose in. Also of course, an even better issue, LOL, the performance at 128 buffer is getting me exactly *half* the VI instances (using a standardised test) that Bitwig gets on the exact same mac. Just phenomenal how far Ableton have fallen behind. I am struggling to find any situation where Live is superior to Bitwig now.. maybe in the fact that it can natively support rex files but that's about it. Oh and rewire I guess. On the flip side there are so many things that Bitwig does better.. Better midi, better routing, the modulation, better performance, better latency compensation, better looks (subjective), better stability, better almost everything.
I am bitwig, pick me, pick me, i now hAs midi export!

levon amirkhan
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:56 pm

Re: Playback latency

Post by levon amirkhan » Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:57 pm

Outside of Ozone, maybe also check if Options > Delay Compensation is enabled. I noticed the issue go away when I unchecked it.

dannymunoz
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:25 pm

Re: Playback latency

Post by dannymunoz » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:14 am

Its not only Ozone, its also other Izotope plugins such as RX7.

Izotope support gives some information:

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us/ar ... mpensation

Also, if you are using one of these plug-ins in a track for example a vocal and you uncheck "Delay Compensation" inside the Izotope plug in, then the track will be out of sync with respect to the other tracks. It's a shame for Izotope, I guess new tech comes with a few drawbacks.

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