What the fuck is going on, pardon my French

[TheCoil]

I don't know if this has been covered here but I've been up against a problem that is changing my whole outlook on using Ableton to record music.
I've been primarily making rock music, which involves recording lots of guitars and bass. Usually I'll record a track of, say, guitar, then use the warp markers to move it roughly into time, so any performance timing issues can be nudged forward or backward.
That being said, I've been hearing performance issues that don't correspond to what I'm seeing visually, tracks sound early or late even though they look to be on the grid.
So I bounced a "warped" guitar performance to a new track, and lo and behold, it didn't match up at all. All the transients were different, as if Ableton wasn't paying attention at all to where I had moved the warp markers.
Now if I unwarp the guitar performance and then bounce it to a new track, it seems to be bouncing with the correct timing.
This happens whether I use tone, complex, or pro warp mode.

This has very troubling and fundamental ramifications for making music with this program. I've been an avid Ableton user for many years but have always felt that "Ableton doesn't sound as good" thing in the back of my mind.
This clearly is making my songs sound shitty, none of the timing is where I think it is, nothing is behaving like it should and it's very frustrating.

[Tarekith]

Check to see if the start marker inside the clip has moved at all, and is so drag it all the way to the left to line things up again.

[TheCoil]

Check to see if the start marker inside the clip has moved at all, and is so drag it all the way to the left to line things up again.

I always make sure the leftmost start marker is on the downbeat of the bar. EVen if it wasn't but all the other markers were correctly lined up to the grid, it shouldn't cause the entire clip to be out of time right? I've been using Ableton literally every day for 10 years so I don't think (I hope) I'm making any boneheaded, obvious mistake here.

As it stands, this type of warping irregularity is making everything sound loose and muddy but it's impossible to address because everything looks to be on the grid. What a nightmare.

[Tarekith]

No really high latency plug ins like Amp Sims and the like on one of those tracks?

If you save the tracks and open them in a new project, do you still have the same issue?

[TheCoil]

No really high latency plug ins like Amp Sims and the like on one of those tracks?

If you save the tracks and open them in a new project, do you still have the same issue?

No, I deleted all of the plugins from the track so it was just the recorded audio and I'm getting the same result. If I had a high latency plugin on a completely different track, but in the same project, would it cause this wonkiness with bouncing audio of an already existing recording? If so, that's highly problematic.

[Da hand]

So I bounced a "warped" guitar performance to a new track

How are you bouncing to a new track exactly? There are many ways to do it (Export, Flatten, Record, Resample, etc), so letting us know how you do it could possibly be a clue to the problem.

Check to see if the start marker inside the clip has moved at all, and is so drag it all the way to the left to line things up again.

I always make sure the leftmost start marker is on the downbeat of the bar. Even if it wasn't but all the other markers were correctly lined up to the grid, it shouldn't cause the entire clip to be out of time right?

I believe the point made by Tarekith was to check the start marker of the new "bounced" clip. It's a point I would like to make as well. If the start marker in the new bounced clip is not exactly where it should be, then yes, it can cause everything in the clip to be out of time compared to the old clip/parts. Where it should be placed depends on how you are bouncing (question above).

[Stromkraft]

This happens whether I use tone, complex, or pro warp mode.

It's "Tones". Why these three? What you seem to be after isn't served by Complex nor Complex Pro at least. Are you actually stretching time in your guitar work? If not why use these at all?

I use beats mode unless I need to change the tempo afterwards. Beats mode with tempo unchanged will null with the unwarped source audio.

Ah, Ce bordel comment nommez-vous les discussions? Pardon mon anglais.

[Da hand]

Ah, Ce bordel comment nommez-vous les discussions? Pardon mon anglais.

Je suis d'accord Stromkraft, j'aurais dû faire un commentaire aussi.

Apart from the swearing, which I don't really care about too much on way or the other, the thread title is offensive to anyone French-speaking.

[cskracer]

Are we really that precious? It's a common English language saying.

[Da hand]

Are we really that precious? It's a common English language saying.

It's only "common" these days in closed English-only speaking circles. People who mingle with other language cultures regularly know better than to use these types of sayings

Edit: Then again, maybe my lack of sleep has made me lose perspective, I don't know.