Tempo Changes for No Reason

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
kyleobryan76
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Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:40 am

Hi,
The tempo is changing on my tracks when I when I reopen Ableton Live 9 Suite. For instance, if I have a track set at 80 bpm that lasts 3 minutes, I reopen it later and it sounds 2 to 3 bpm slower
even though the track is still at 80 bpm and lasts 3 minutes. It is quite frustrating and I've tried everything I can think of fix it---the Ableton preferences match the settings on my sound card.
If anyone has any ideas or solutions, I would appreciate it very much. It is baffling and takes me out of even wanting to record. Thank you in advance for any ideas.

Stromkraft
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:15 am

kyleobryan76 wrote:I reopen it later and it sounds 2 to 3 bpm slower even though the track is still at 80 bpm and lasts 3 minutes.
Sounds slower? What does that mean?
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kyleobryan76
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:42 am

It actually sounds slower (I know how fast the groove should be and it actually is audibly slower sometimes when I reopen it). That is the strangest part---when it sounds slower you would think
the track would end at 3:05 or something instead of 3:00 but it doesn't. It defies all logic. I don't know what to do about it----I'm mostly concerned with the track exporting at the correct
audible speed and am not as concerned with the technical bpm or time length of the track, but it's hard to know what that actually is supposed to be since the audible speed changes seemingly
at random. Do you think warp may have something to do with it? Any thought or ideas you have would be greatly appreciated.

Flexbusterman8888
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Flexbusterman8888 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:13 pm

kyleobryan76 wrote:It actually sounds slower (I know how fast the groove should be and it actually is audibly slower sometimes when I reopen it). That is the strangest part---when it sounds slower you would think
the track would end at 3:05 or something instead of 3:00 but it doesn't. It defies all logic. I don't know what to do about it----I'm mostly concerned with the track exporting at the correct
audible speed and am not as concerned with the technical bpm or time length of the track, but it's hard to know what that actually is supposed to be since the audible speed changes seemingly
at random. Do you think warp may have something to do with it? Any thought or ideas you have would be greatly appreciated.
I would try using an external metronome and referencing it to your track to ensure its not a problem with the software, or warp settings of your clips.

Tarekith
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Tarekith » Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:18 pm

Check your sample rate in your audio preferences too, shouldn't neccesarily cause this issue but I've seen it a couple times with cheaper soundcards.

Stromkraft
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:15 pm

kyleobryan76 wrote:It actually sounds slower
OK.

What I'd do after taken Tarekith's advice:

Code: Select all

[1]Make a recording in first session with Resampling or what not
[2]Select the clip and right-click, choose "Show in…" (the file system). 
[3]Duplicate and move to safe place.
[4]In later session repeat the steps above
[5]In a suitable sample editor, like [url=http://ocenaudio.com.br]Ocenaudio[/url], open both files
[6]Select one open file and reverse polarity (phase) 
[7]Select all audio and copy
[8]Merge the copied audio into the other audio file
In Ocenaudio you do steps 6-8 with reversing polarity in the "Paste special…" dialog by choose "invert" on both channels. It's a good idea to copy and paste the same reverse polarity audio, to make sure you get a reference point, for the expected result if the both audio files are the same: Silence.

Now, two recordings of two sessions in the same set do not at all have to cancel out, but I think this is a good starting point.

Of course if the problem is in the audio interface, as Tarekith suggested you check, you'd have to instead make an external digital recording in the same fashion.

I also wonder if you have played around with groove quantize or something like that? I'd assume not at this point.
Last edited by Stromkraft on Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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kyleobryan76
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:33 pm

Thanks to everyone for the replies. My sample rate is 48000 in preferences and is set to always resample 41000 to 48000 (and vice versa) in my soundcard settings. After a bit of research, the consensus was that those are the best settings, but could it be a possible culprit? Also, I haven't quantized anything unless I did it by mistake. Flexbusterman8888 mentioned the warp settings: how do you change those and what are the default/best settings? I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions.

Tarekith
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Tarekith » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:40 pm

Those sample rates are fine, the issue is if perhaps your samples are 44.1 and the soundcard is locked to 48k (for instance). It's rare this is an issue, but I've seen it cause similar symptoms before.

kyleobryan76
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:13 am

Should I unclick the Always Resample 44.1k to 48k box in Hardware Settings in Ableton Preferences? I thought about that before, but all the videos I watched about the best setup said to have that box clicked. I have everything else I can think of set to 48000---please let me know what you think.

Stromkraft
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:48 am

kyleobryan76 wrote:Should I unclick the Always Resample 44.1k to 48k box in Hardware Settings in Ableton Preferences?
I don't see this setting "always esample" in the Live audio preferences, nor is it mentioned in the 9 and 10 manuals. Actually not even the word "resample". The same goes for "hardware settings". Do you mean the settings of your audio interface? Or what did you refer to here?

If this is indeed about your audio interface I'd assume that at what sample rate Live sends to this is what you have chosen at "In/Out Sample Rate" in the Live preferences > Audio. I don't see why one would want a mismatch between Live and the audio interface.
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Stromkraft
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:53 am

Here's another question: When this "slowing down" appears, does speeding up the tempo a bit make the song to appear to be in the proper tempo? Or does it still somehow feel slow?

Generally, at normal tempo, is the perceived slower tempo constant, but otherwise correct? Or does it kind of fluctuate? I wonder if some beats could be slowing down during playback, and possibly then speedup, much as if the DAW can't keep up.
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kyleobryan76
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:46 am

Thanks for your replies, Stromkraft.
For me, Hardware Setup is under Options>Preferences>Audio in Ableton and is directly beneath Channel Configuration. I guess that does refer to the audio interface (which, in my case, is a Scarlett Focusrite).
In Hardware Setup, I have an "Always Resample 44100<->48000" box that is checked (again, because the setup videos all said to leave it checked), but maybe I should try unchecking it and see what happens? I suppose that
could be the problem. To your other question, the tempo stays constant whether at the desired speed or slower. I do raise the bpm to regain the desired speed when it sounds slow, and sometimes this sounds correct when
I close and reopen and sometimes not. It sometimes sounds "off" about 0.5 bpm and sometimes about 2 bpm (and various bpm in between). Thank you so much for the ideas--I think I will unclick the Always Resample Box in
Hardware Setup and see if that keeps the desired tempo each time I close the project and reopen it.

Stromkraft
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:18 pm

kyleobryan76 wrote:…in my case, is a Scarlett Focusrite).
In Hardware Setup, I have an "Always Resample 44100<->48000" box that is checked (again, because the setup videos all said to leave it checked), but maybe I should try unchecking it and see what happens? I suppose that
could be the problem.
I think this area concerns differences between CoreAudio in macOS, that I use, and its equivalent in Windows, or alternatively in the Scarlett driver. I don't think it can hurt to try, but personally I don't think this is likely to be the problem. Scarlett makes good drivers I believe.

Have you verified you installed the recommended driver for your OS version?
Make some music!

kyleobryan76
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by kyleobryan76 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:18 pm

I really do appreciate your help, but I play music the old fashioned way (not that you don't) and just need the program for drums and orchestral strings. For instance, I tried to record a track and even though the levels were reading, the track didn't record. I'm not the least bit interested in the nature of the program itself or trying to figure out why something didn't play or doesn't sound the way I played it----I'm sick of Ableton and it can go fuck itself for good. Thank you again for trying to help, but I don't have the patience nor the willingness to deal with this program.

Tarekith
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Re: Tempo Changes for No Reason

Post by Tarekith » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:51 pm

I’m sorry you’re having issues, but a bunch of people tried to help you so it would be nice if you could at least be civil here.

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