Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:29 pm

Hi all!

I saw an statement in a closed Ableton forum saying that Ableton records audio as any other DAW or app available...
I don't think it is true. Somehow ABleton alters the sound quality when recording.
I say this because I tried hard to make Ableton to just sound as good as other apps and I was never able to do that.
In the same computer, which is a very powerful PC, I have Ableton, Cubase AI and Sound Forge installed.
All applications using default settings. For the test I recorded at 44.1, 512 samples.
I use Yamaha Montage as the audio interface and I also tried with Fantom G.
I also tried different audio drivers/devices, like ASIO4ALL and the ones provided by the manufacturers (Fantom G and Yamaha Steinberg).
When recording using either Cubase or Sound Forge, the sound is crystal clear as it is in the instruments. When recording with Ableton, it is not. Something happens to the quality of the audio.
I can also confirm that by just opening the wav file recorded in Ableton in Cubase and it sounds poorly. If I do the opposite (load a wav file recorded in Cubase in Ableton), it sounds perfectly.
I don't know how to solve the problem.
Ableton has everything I need for producing music, but this. I love the interface and the easiness of use, but unfortunately I cannot use only Ableton when recording audio and I'm forced to use other DAWs for the job...
This is frustrating because I lose the good dynamics of working with Ableton and have to adapt my mindset when switching from DAW to DAW, not to mention the unpleasant work of importing audio from one DAW to the other...
If you have anything that could help me solve this, please share.
Best regards,
Andre

Tarekith
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Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by Tarekith » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:31 pm

Turn off Warping for the audio clip in Live after you record the audio. Does that fix it?

Stromkraft
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Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:14 pm

andrepires wrote: If you have anything that could help me solve this, please share.

Share the projects. If not, I'm out for sure.
Make some music!

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:31 pm

Tarekith wrote:Turn off Warping for the audio clip in Live after you record the audio. Does that fix it?
Hi Erik.
Yes, I tried that.
It cannot be the warp function because the raw wave file is poor. I mentioned that if I import the raw sample recorded in Ableton in another DAW, like Cubase, it sounds poorer anyways. When importing samples recorded in Cubase or Sound forge into Ableton it sounds great even with warp function on.

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:35 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
andrepires wrote: If you have anything that could help me solve this, please share.

Share the projects. If not, I'm out for sure.
Hi!
It's not even a project.
I just create a blank project, add an audio track and start recording.
Only clips, no effects, standard config.
But if you want I can share the raw audio files recorded in Ableton and Cubase so you can listen to the differences...

jestermgee
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Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by jestermgee » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:52 am

I don't think it is true. Somehow ABleton alters the sound quality when recording.
I would suggest if you have any kind of inclination about this, to throw "thinking" out the window and instead try and methodically prove it. Also keep in mind Live is not just used by a handful of hobbyists but is actually a pro-end piece of software used professionally around the world so if your thought was to actually be true then I would think it would be causing users, such as me, issues which it does not.
I say this because I tried hard to make Ableton to just sound as good as other apps and I was never able to do that
What is your process tho? If you use multiple pieces of software perhaps you don't quite have a handle on how Live works compared to others. What is a process you take that others could use as a base test to provide their own results? Saying you have "tried hard" is not as helpful as some detailed steps on what you did compared to what you did in another piece of software.
In the same computer, which is a very powerful PC
I always love this "My PC is very powerful" answer but no specs of what your idea of "powerful" is. I am sure it has the capabilities to launch nuclear tactical missiles but to help US out, why would you not bother to post your specs?

I have a "pretty fast car" but I cannot win a race so what is the issue?
All applications using default settings. For the test I recorded at 44.1, 512 samples.
See this is where we start to notice you aren't that experienced and your issue could be anything. When you record audio you do not record based on a "sample buffer", those specs are your audio output. Recording would be 44.1, 16bit or something. The 512 samples are your output buffer.
When recording using either Cubase or Sound Forge, the sound is crystal clear as it is in the instruments. When recording with Ableton, it is not. Something happens to the quality of the audio.
So far you have not actually even stated WHAT you are recording. Is it an instrument, voice, something else?

Also, when you say "it's not clear" what do you mean? Is it distorted, lacking in low/high end, glitchy? A sample of what you have recorded would probably tell us what is going on. Also the version of Live you are working with.

The issue is almost definitely not Live but something you are doing.

fishmonkey
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:26 am

andrepires wrote: All applications using default settings.
mistake #1, assuming that "default settings" in different DAWs will give the same results.

what bit depth is each DAW using?

exactly what are you recording?

are the recordings level-matched?

definitely put some lossless audio files up somewhere so we can compare them ourselves ("sounds poorly" and "sounds perfectly" are meaningless)...
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:45 am

jestermgee wrote:
I don't think it is true. Somehow ABleton alters the sound quality when recording.
I would suggest if you have any kind of inclination about this, to throw "thinking" out the window and instead try and methodically prove it. Also keep in mind Live is not just used by a handful of hobbyists but is actually a pro-end piece of software used professionally around the world so if your thought was to actually be true then I would think it would be causing users, such as me, issues which it does not.
I say this because I tried hard to make Ableton to just sound as good as other apps and I was never able to do that
What is your process tho? If you use multiple pieces of software perhaps you don't quite have a handle on how Live works compared to others. What is a process you take that others could use as a base test to provide their own results? Saying you have "tried hard" is not as helpful as some detailed steps on what you did compared to what you did in another piece of software.
In the same computer, which is a very powerful PC
I always love this "My PC is very powerful" answer but no specs of what your idea of "powerful" is. I am sure it has the capabilities to launch nuclear tactical missiles but to help US out, why would you not bother to post your specs?

I have a "pretty fast car" but I cannot win a race so what is the issue?
All applications using default settings. For the test I recorded at 44.1, 512 samples.
See this is where we start to notice you aren't that experienced and your issue could be anything. When you record audio you do not record based on a "sample buffer", those specs are your audio output. Recording would be 44.1, 16bit or something. The 512 samples are your output buffer.
When recording using either Cubase or Sound Forge, the sound is crystal clear as it is in the instruments. When recording with Ableton, it is not. Something happens to the quality of the audio.
So far you have not actually even stated WHAT you are recording. Is it an instrument, voice, something else?

Also, when you say "it's not clear" what do you mean? Is it distorted, lacking in low/high end, glitchy? A sample of what you have recorded would probably tell us what is going on. Also the version of Live you are working with.

The issue is almost definitely not Live but something you are doing.
So Mr. Jester...
Maybe my post was not as professional as your standards of professionalism.
Maybe you are the most professional Ableton user out there, I don't know really.
What I know is that both of us probably bought the same product from the same company and paid a good amount of money for it expecting just the simplest outcome from the tool of our choices. I didn't get what I needed, but it seems like you, and all your professionalism, got it. Good for you.
Now, instead of keeping labeling me and diminishing my experience, would you be willing to help?
And yes, my PC is powerful, but I just put that to make a point and filter out some possible PC related answers and not to show off what I have here. By default config I believe you are wrong, since the settings I mentioned clearly state (in app) that they are recording related and not playback as you said.
And I will continue using "think", since it is just a word from the english dictionary that is very useful for those who are not understanding what is going on , like me, and just ask for help to professionals like you.
Regarding my method, here it is:
- Buy a £3000 PC
- Pay more £1000 for an Ableton Live 10 license
- Buy an Yamaha Montage
- Install the Cubase AI that comes with the Montage
- Install Abletom
- Plug it all together, following the manuals
- Add an audio track in Ableton
- Hit the Record button
- Play something in your Montagw, any patch.
- Expect the best quality recording from all the pounds you put in it
- Get poor quality in return
- Now do exactly the same, but now using any other DAW. In my case it happens to be Cubase AI, a free software that happens to come with the Montage.
- Get full quality results.
- Don't be happy and try again, all the same, but now with Sound Forge
- Get full quality results.
- Be not convinced yet and download any (I mean any) audio recording freeware.
- Hit the record button
- Get full quality results.

Does it sound like my process to you?


andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:57 am

jestermgee wrote:Good luck man... :roll:
As expected...

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:23 am

fishmonkey wrote:
andrepires wrote: All applications using default settings.
mistake #1, assuming that "default settings" in different DAWs will give the same results.

what bit depth is each DAW using?

exactly what are you recording?

are the recordings level-matched?

definitely put some lossless audio files up somewhere so we can compare them ourselves ("sounds poorly" and "sounds perfectly" are meaningless)...
Hi!
What you said about the mistakes is interesting. Thanks for that. Expecting the best out of the box is really a mistake.
I will investigate better on that.
About bitrates: It is 16 bits 44.1 in all recording software I tested.
Yamaha instructs to set the audio settings in Montage to the same values used in the DAW, so I did it.
The recording levels match. Note that I'm recording from USB audio directly from Montage, no acustic instrument or voice recordings. Just any patch from the synth.
Now it is 4:22AN here. First thing in the morning will be sharing both audio samples so you can listem to them and compare.
Thanks for helping!

fishmonkey
Posts: 4103
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by fishmonkey » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:32 am

Live defaults to 24-bit samples for recording.

another question is how are you exporting the audio from Live, and what settings are you using?
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

Mark Williams
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:43 pm
Location: Deal, Kent

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by Mark Williams » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:24 am

andrepires wrote:
And yes, my PC is powerful, but I just put that to make a point and filter out some possible PC related answers and not to show off what I have here. By default config I believe you are wrong, since the settings I mentioned clearly state (in app) that they are recording related and not playback as you said.
And I will continue using "think", since it is just a word from the english dictionary that is very useful for those who are not understanding what is going on , like me, and just ask for help to professionals like you.
Regarding my method, here it is:
- Buy a £3000 PC
- Pay more £1000 for an Ableton Live 10 license
- Buy an Yamaha Montage
- Install the Cubase AI that comes with the Montage
- Install Abletom
- Plug it all together, following the manuals
- Add an audio track in Ableton
- Hit the Record button
- Play something in your Montagw, any patch.
- Expect the best quality recording from all the pounds you put in it
- Get poor quality in return
- Now do exactly the same, but now using any other DAW. In my case it happens to be Cubase AI, a free software that happens to come with the Montage.
- Get full quality results.
- Don't be happy and try again, all the same, but now with Sound Forge
- Get full quality results.
- Be not convinced yet and download any (I mean any) audio recording freeware.
- Hit the record button
- Get full quality results.

Does it sound like my process to you?
To be honest, sounds like complete toss to me, you still dont give any specs or info that was asked earlier, yet you expect help.
Stating things as you think, is not representing facts.

Cant help those that wont help themselves. Good Luck..
Live 10,Push 2, Maschine MK3 & KK S61 MK2, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Softube Console 1 Mk2, Deepmind 12D, K-2,Roland MC-707, Komplete 12, Minitaur,TC Electronics M1XL,

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:12 am

Mark Williams wrote:
andrepires wrote:
And yes, my PC is powerful, but I just put that to make a point and filter out some possible PC related answers and not to show off what I have here. By default config I believe you are wrong, since the settings I mentioned clearly state (in app) that they are recording related and not playback as you said.
And I will continue using "think", since it is just a word from the english dictionary that is very useful for those who are not understanding what is going on , like me, and just ask for help to professionals like you.
Regarding my method, here it is:
- Buy a £3000 PC
- Pay more £1000 for an Ableton Live 10 license
- Buy an Yamaha Montage
- Install the Cubase AI that comes with the Montage
- Install Abletom
- Plug it all together, following the manuals
- Add an audio track in Ableton
- Hit the Record button
- Play something in your Montagw, any patch.
- Expect the best quality recording from all the pounds you put in it
- Get poor quality in return
- Now do exactly the same, but now using any other DAW. In my case it happens to be Cubase AI, a free software that happens to come with the Montage.
- Get full quality results.
- Don't be happy and try again, all the same, but now with Sound Forge
- Get full quality results.
- Be not convinced yet and download any (I mean any) audio recording freeware.
- Hit the record button
- Get full quality results.

Does it sound like my process to you?
To be honest, sounds like complete toss to me, you still dont give any specs or info that was asked earlier, yet you expect help.
Stating things as you think, is not representing facts.

Cant help those that wont help themselves. Good Luck..
Yes Mr. Mark.
You're right. It is a complete toss.
It is also a response from someone that is upset with
What is going on after considerable investment, then came here asking for help and received a an answer a long text that was just trying to diminish my experience and being sarcastict instead of just asking politely for the missing information!
I would just write whatever info and share whatever data necessary. And I would do it happily...
I don't understand why people take time to write long texts using words that will only make someone that is already upset to get even more upset.
If you meet someone that is clearly upset or saying something that is incomplete or demonstrates lack of experience, you don't make fun of that person! You ask politely about the missing info and try to really help that person...
That is the reason why a forum like this exists. To help people with NO EXPERIENCE to get experienced!
So, if you think the same as the guy above do about my original question, and don't want to really help, just ignore me.
But if you really want to help, do as you demanded from me and be clear about what sort of info I should share and maybe detailed information on what it is so I could happily provide it to all of you.
Can it be like this?

andrepires
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Poor audio quality when recording (again)

Post by andrepires » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am

fishmonkey wrote:Live defaults to 24-bit samples for recording.

another question is how are you exporting the audio from Live, and what settings are you using?
Hi againg fishmonkey!
Thanks again for trying to help.
That's a good point. Here is how I'doing

- In Ableton, before recording I set the temporary audio settings to a known folder so I can easily access the raw clips.
- I did the same in other DAWs.

So, I'm not actually using any export function, just playing back the raw clips.

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