File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Phillis
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File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Phillis » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:19 pm

Hello,

My problem is that i made a live set, 25Tracks(Songs), 1.5 hours, 1100 Samples (One Sample is 4Bars/5 Tracks, while transitions up to 7 tracks) and thera are crackle and overloads/scattering and lots of stuff. So my question is, is it better with many small or with less large files / stems?

I will buy an external SSD in the future, so i got a clean drive for my music and now i defrag my drive, hope it will help a bit.

Greets,

Phillis
Last edited by Phillis on Wed May 02, 2018 9:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

jestermgee
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Re: File size for Live Set? Less large or many small files?

Post by jestermgee » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:29 pm

Could be your computer... or your interface... or your settings. What are you using there?

Phillis
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Re: File size for Live Set? Less large or many small files?

Post by Phillis » Tue May 01, 2018 7:44 am

My Laptop is shit, but everything works while making music, so when there are much more tracks and VST plugins. Also when i'm near to the 80% RAM, everything is fine.
The Interface is a NI Komplete 6, i dont think this makes the problems.

Only in my live set i got so much drive overload and now much more then earlier. A year ago everything works fine.
Yesterday i wanted to collect and save, i didn't know what happened, but all my consolidated files now gut some errors/white noise in it, the copies and the originals.. so i have to consolidate my stems again.

Machinesworking
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Re: File size for Live Set? Less large or many small files?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue May 01, 2018 7:48 am

I'm not sure if this relevant to your situation, but I had a huge set and at one point it started having issues, due to minor adjustments I had made to to dozens of files, warping sounds etc. All that taxes your CPU so flattening everything to regular audio files fixed it for me.

Phillis
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Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Phillis » Tue May 01, 2018 7:54 am

I´m exporting the finished track into 5 different stems, then load the 5 files in a new ableton file, there i cut(consolidate) it into 4 bar length.
Then i import the Loops in my Live Set.

No warping or some changes on the files, only some few FX on the track, but the RAM is at max. 30%

I think, it only can have something to do with the external hard drive..


Is there maybe a big difference between mono and stereo files? then maybe i also can export some of the original stems in mono, instead of stereo.
(My Bass for example got recorded as mono, then get exported and saved as stereo)

Machinesworking
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Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Machinesworking » Tue May 01, 2018 9:18 am

Phillis wrote:I´m exporting the finished track into 5 different stems, then load the 5 files in a new ableton file, there i cut(consolidate) it into 4 bar length.
Then i import the Loops in my Live Set.

No warping or some changes on the files, only some few FX on the track, but the RAM is at max. 30%

I think, it only can have something to do with the external hard drive..


Is there maybe a big difference between mono and stereo files? then maybe i also can export some of the original stems in mono, instead of stereo.
(My Bass for example got recorded as mono, then get exported and saved as stereo)
Mono files are easier on the drives for sure, but I doubt that's the main thing that's an issue here.

Some things that really don't affect audio quality while playing live to try:

If you're using 24 bit files try 16, with PA systems you truly hear no difference and it's easier to stream for the laptop.

It sounds like you're on an older Windows laptop with a regular HD in it. I would replace the internal HD with an SSD drive. USB unless it's the new USB C is going to bottleneck the performance of the external SSD. You get the extra advantage of a fast OS then as well.

Try without FX. Live for me at least can be very fussy about certain plug ins. It doesn't like heavily scripted Kontact libraries for instance. It's possible some plug in is the main problem here.

Besides not knowing the actual size of your Set, your laptop specs, sound card, what FX you're using, what your set up is in general, which makes it hard to help you, nothing you're doing seems that out of the ordinary, so you should be able to do this no problem.

Phillis
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Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Phillis » Tue May 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Thanks for the great reply @Machinesworking


I will try mono and 16bit files

I would replace the internal HD with an SSD drive
I would also prefer a MAC or a new Laptop, i dont know if its worth it, to upgrade this laptop

Besides not knowing the actual size of your Set, your laptop specs, sound card, what FX you're using, what your set up is in general, which makes it hard to help you
The FX i use in the set are also abletons own, so there shouldn't be any problem
I only wonder why its worked a year ago, because of this, first i want to try a new clean external SSD for my Live Set. On my actual drive is also lots of other stuff.. that should also be a reason.

I also now use more hardware stuff then earlier, to reduce the things the laptop has to do. My earlier Sets were much bigger, so more Tracks and more VST, also Midi Tracks.. there i haven't these problems.



But good to know that the file size isn't such important.
I only thought maybe the drive haven't to search so often/hard, when there are less bigger files.

jestermgee
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Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by jestermgee » Tue May 01, 2018 11:44 pm

Your HDD would probably be a 5400rpm drive which is sloooooow and good for almost nothing these days. that would be the main cause of your issues.

The OS environment will change over time with updates, more software you install, garbage you install, fragmented files (which on a 5400 drive can bring it to its knees pretty fast) so even if it all worked a year ago it's no guarantee when you are on such a tight line of performance it will work later down the track.

Adding an external SSD wouldn't offer a great deal of additional performance unless you have USB3 ports.

Without knowing anything about your actual laptop specs other than "My Laptop is shit" it's hard to say if upgrading the drive to SSD would work for you. It's a pretty "easy" thing to do if you have some knowledge with computers and cloning a drive isn't a huge issue.

Machinesworking
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Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Machinesworking » Wed May 02, 2018 4:08 am

Phillis wrote:
I would replace the internal HD with an SSD drive
I would also prefer a MAC or a new Laptop, i dont know if its worth it, to upgrade this laptop
You are not obligated to sell the laptop you have with the SSD you buy for it. :) You're talking about getting an external SSD, which with regular USB3 caps out at around 330mbs, compare that to the average SSD speed of 550mbs. It's a significant advantage to have your SSD mounted directly to the system bus as your OS drive, it more than makes up for any possible hiccups having everything on one drive. By the time you get a new laptop USB-C should be commonplace, and it's more than fast enough to allow SSDs at full speed externally! so the SSD will live on to fight another day! :twisted:

The other thing, if your old hard drive is at or above 75% or so full it will start to behave badly, this could be why a set would be different over time.
hard disc drives like to be bellow 75% full so they can use the extra space for swap files etc. this is true of SSDs as well, but you really see a performance hit on hard drives when you're hitting 80% and above in my experience.

Phillis
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Location: Berlin

Re: File/loop size for Live Set? Less large or many small loops?

Post by Phillis » Wed May 02, 2018 9:14 am

Without knowing anything about your actual laptop specs other than "My Laptop is shit" it's hard to say if upgrading the drive to SSD would work for you. It's a pretty "easy" thing to do if you have some knowledge with computers and cloning a drive isn't a huge issue.
I know it's very easy and it would work for me with an internal, but mý actual Laptop is really a pain in the neck.. I also really want a new one, but that's another theme.


75%
I read 90% in other forums.

But ok, the best way would be to get a clean drive for the live set only.
First i will try an external, because it worked earlier and if its not better i will think about to buy an internal or a new laptop.

I need anyway lots of external drives for junk files, back ups and so on.

Thanks or your help guys!

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