Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Tue May 01, 2018 2:28 am

Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"
(obviously against an exact, immediate export w/o Normalize on)
HEEEELP!!! Anybody know? I wanna release in the summer!

I'm a "newb" both to engineering and DAW's. (~14 months trails!...mostly errors!)
I've fought my way to the middle of the bottom on 7 songs, and
I have an issue that's diving me nuts... I'm ALMOST there....

I'm using Live9 intro on some of the "widest" songs you can imagine...
I have a rap/hip-hop song, a blues song, (Ol' s'cool) an east Indian/ Arabian
"Silk Road Project" song, a Dance/Trance, and a song called "Swamp Thang."
One of a thousand, but this one SOUNDS like it's on the bayou...
I defy the word "Genre" altogether. I prefer the word "flavored "

SO my mixes are a challenge at best, a nightmare of frequency wrangling
on a bad day.

TOOLZ: 8 guitars, (mostly great quality) including bass and 7 string,
Krog N5 (I know it's old, still chills and sets mood like few others)
Keystation 49 for Drum MIDI recording (I don't push buttons) and
a very strong computer with a Scarlett 2i2 USB 2, running @ 48Khz and
24bit through a 1st Gen ASIO driver, with all Latencycomphensated,
(Go Live! Nice setup Wizards)

ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. Oh I have light compression on
the Master channel "Pushing" the 0db by +1.8 tops. Fat sound.

"G-Pop!"

Stromkraft · Post by **Stromkraft** » Tue May 01, 2018 9:56 am

G-Pop wrote:
ANY HELP would be greatly appreciated. Oh I have light compression on
the Master channel "Pushing" the 0db by +1.8 tops. Fat sound.

A recipe for disaster. There is no value above 0dBFS so you're clipping for anything going over 0dBFS which distorts your sound. And you normalize on top of that? That it sounds alright before is likely because the 32bit audio bus in Live has more head room than your export. See this video for more on bit depth and levels.

Normalizing is not something you normally need to do. Push down your compressor so you're peaking about -1dB. Put a Limiter last on the master to make sure you got no stray peaks overshooting 0dBFS.

You should also read up on LUFS and realize that listening volume is not something you're in control of. Listeners, DJs, streaming services (most) and so on, all control volume. Your objective, if you choose to accept it, is to make your tracks sound great.

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 am

FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION... Lives audio engine and clipping...
I looked at the peaks in Audacity (I use it for quick edits)
and at the climax of the song the wave form clipped...

I
The Live audio engine being able to handle the additional "Push"
because in another forum, someone pointed me to some Mastering
info on Ableton.com and I read the article on Ableton's site and it
said the engine could handle the peaks without clipping...

I did think it was stupid (I've been mixing my songs so far NEVER
getting that yellow peak sucker showing it's ugly head.)
I do try to make the final total mix output get CLOSE to 0db, but
not going over.

But thanks a huge heap! I'd give you a gold star my friend!
Clear, concise and obviously experienced are you! Yeeesss!

[ok you can't hear me but I'm doing Yoda!

)

Thank you, Master Freq wrangler! My granddaughters will sing
songs about you!

G Pop

Shift Gorden · Post by **Shift Gorden** » Wed May 02, 2018 5:10 pm

G-Pop wrote:FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION... Lives audio engine and clipping...
I looked at the peaks in Audacity (I use it for quick edits)
and at the climax of the song the wave form clipped...

I
The Live audio engine being able to handle the additional "Push"
because in another forum, someone pointed me to some Mastering
info on Ableton.com and I read the article on Ableton's site and it
said the engine could handle the peaks without clipping...

I did think it was stupid (I've been mixing my songs so far NEVER
getting that yellow peak sucker showing it's ugly head.)
I do try to make the final total mix output get CLOSE to 0db, but
not going over.

But thanks a huge heap! I'd give you a gold star my friend!
Clear, concise and obviously experienced are you! Yeeesss!

[ok you can't hear me but I'm doing Yoda! )

Thank you, Master Freq wrangler! My granddaughters will sing
songs about you!

G Pop

Yeah, when you're in Ableton the program can handle without clipping (even if some things are in the red), but when you render that sucker as a .wav or whatever things are gonna be clipped!

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Sat May 05, 2018 5:44 pm

Thanks guys! I actually went to the Kimble store... and bought a
GREAT book on all the things I was already supposed to KNOW about
mixing and mastering BEFORE I got Live and started pushing buttons
and slamming VSTs on everything! (And not understanding the manual!)
DUH!

It's already helped me find a half dozen problems (and how to recognize
them!) And I just wrangled one of the seven tunes into REAL actual shape
you guys might even be proud of!

I didn't even know about the surplus low end freq's!

Remixing EVERYTHING!

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun May 06, 2018 12:35 am

Ahh... young Padawan, your enthusiasm and delight is most gratifying!

Signed,
The Old Farts of the forum

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Sun May 06, 2018 2:06 am

Pitch Black wrote:Ahh... young Padawan, your enthusiasm and delight is most gratifying!

The Old Farts of the forum

Old fartz? I'm 61! My wife says "mentally still 12!"

"Yeeessss... Older than YOU... I may be!"

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Sun May 06, 2018 4:49 am

Judge you by your age do we?

And well we should not!

Can we call you G-Pops??

j/k tell your wife a chronic case of Peterpanitis is a wonderful thing!

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Mon May 07, 2018 4:59 am

Pitch Black wrote: ...a chronic case of Peterpanitis is a wonderful thing!

Of course! Why ELSE whould I have written and produced a RAP song,
being a chubby, 61y/o white guy from the Woods in South Jersey?

"G pop." I insist my grand daughters call me this cuz ima gangsta!

Hey made this up because I'm getting pre - Alzheimer's;
Maybe check it for accuracy and post it wherever. I made it so no
copyright infringement and if corrections are needed (brief!)
lemme know and I'll edit and re-export... My way of saying thanks
maybe?

Jimmy Savage, my "Sound Guy" in my best band... I told him to stop
getting drunk before he mixes our live show or I'd fire him. He
said,
"You can't... I'm the only one in this group of idiots who knows
where all the plugs go."

Yeah, he won! lol!

G-Pop · Post by **G-Pop** » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:14 pm

Pitch Black wrote:Can we call you G-Pops??

YUP! Hey maybe I should post my rap song somewhere,
(is there a "Look at my file and tell me what is wrong with my
Scheisse? lol!)
The basic kit is
DL_HipHop_83bpm1
G Poppin' "Pack" is 69,182K or an exported mp3? (10,850K)

it's called "G Poppin'"
(Shocker!)
and it's totally gangsta related. Other than my voice,
I "Stole it" From Lives archives & Packs!
I don't think there's a single thing in the song that's
original; every single element (lots) came out of Live9
Intro and the free packs...

I could advertise for Ableton! lmao!

Oh and it's BA.
(Bad @$$!)

I'm G Poppin'

Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"

Re: Master export loses treble when using "Normalize"