aupresets still broken in 10.02

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:48 pm

Muze wrote:10.02 release notes

Tarekith in this thread

and Live devs here

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=229277
I'm sorry I changed the content as I was getting out on a tangent not related to the issue. As you can see I do see AU presets, just as the release notes says.

It could be time for you to trash your preferences. Then it should work. Unless I still misunderstand what issue you are referring to. Hopefully not.
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:14 pm

No I did try that and it didn't fix anything for me. aupresets can be browsed, as I posted in the closed thread, in the places section, but then you have to browse to them separate from the plugin. However they are meant to be available in the plugin list itself by clicking on the dropdown arrow next to each plugin (as stated in the manual) - that is what is broken and what was supposed to have been fixed but apparently ended up being held back in favour of other things.

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:27 am

Muze wrote:No I did try that and it didn't fix anything for me. aupresets can be browsed, as I posted in the closed thread, in the places section, but then you have to browse to them separate from the plugin. However they are meant to be available in the plugin list itself by clicking on the dropdown arrow next to each plugin (as stated in the manual) - that is what is broken and what was supposed to have been fixed but apparently ended up being held back in favour of other things.
OK, but as you can see my browsing takes place in the "User Library", not "Places". Where else do you expect to see these?
I did find this in the manual:
"Audio Units presets have an .aupreset extension and are stored in the following directory according to their manufacturer’s name:
Home/Library/Audio/Presets/[Manufacturer Name]/[Plug-in Name]
which does indicate another place for where you may encounter AU presets and incidentally is where I normally try and save plugin-specific presets. I don't think this changes the GUI though.

Regarding that I found this in the Live 10 manual > 17.2 "Using Plug-Ins":
"Note that plug-in presets are only available in the browser for Audio Units Plug-ins. In some instances, factory presets for Audio Units will only appear in the browser once the device has been placed in a track and its Hot-Swap button activated."
It would seem your expectations are not correct. The drop down menu is in VST plug-ins. I don't even see these in Live 9.

Here's Fxpansion Tremor VST-version in Live 9:

Image

I assume that you with "drop down" mean the area just below the plug-in header bar? Green here.

As you see this is not present in the AU version:

Image
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:26 am

You are misreading the manual, it says they (should) load from the browser, not from a dropdown menu in the device itself (as in FXP/B presets for VST2) - I wasn't meaning that. What I was referring to is they load via the little arrow next to each plugin in the plugins section that unfolds to open up the list of presets available (as also happens with Live devices). It explains it in more detail here what should be happening:

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... t-handling
A plug-in can be unfolded in the "Plug-ins" Category in Live's Browser and will show the related presets.
Presets can directly be loaded into Live, similar to the behavior of presets of Live's own devices. See Live's manual, chapter 17.4, to learn more.
Note this is only for presets stored on the hard drive (not built in ones) and in the correct location but mine are and so are those of other's experiencing this problem.

This is what is broken in Live 10 and what the devs were referring to in the other thread as having been fixed.

Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:39 pm

So I take it that no one is actually able to get aupresets loading the proper way in Live 10?

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:54 am

Muze wrote:You are misreading the manual, it says they (should) load from the browser, not from a dropdown menu in the device itself (as in FXP/B presets for VST2) - I wasn't meaning that.
It would seem I misunderstood you and not the manual as you repeat what I just said the manual says.
Muze wrote: What I was referring to is they load via the little arrow next to each plugin in the plugins section that unfolds to open up the list of presets available (as also happens with Live devices).
Thanks for the clarification.
Muze wrote:This is what is broken in Live 10 and what the devs were referring to in the other thread as having been fixed.
That's what you claim.

Here's my browser showing Z3TA+ 2 AU presets in Live 9:

Image

and showing AU presets in Live 10.0.2:

Image

Isn't it possible some specific AU presets could be broken in Live 10? That's a different problem than that all AU presets are broken. It could also be a specific problem like permissions issues. Did you investigate that?
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:03 pm

I'm pleased it's working for you but it isn't for me and several other people have reported this is still an issue, both this time round and in the previous thread when it was first identified. Since that's the case I reported it in the beta forum and it's now been confirmed. Obviously it doesn't affect everyone but I never claimed it did, but it is still an issue when it was meant to have been fixed. here's how z3Ta+ looks for me (same with every other AU on my system:

Image

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:42 pm

Muze wrote:I'm pleased it's working for you but it isn't for me and several other people have reported this is still an issue, both this time round and in the previous thread when it was first identified. Since that's the case I reported it in the beta forum and it's now been confirmed. Obviously it doesn't affect everyone but I never claimed it did, but it is still an issue when it was meant to have been fixed. here's how z3Ta+ looks for me (same with every other AU on my system:
Well, that's odd. I wonder what the cause could be? Did you investigate permissions?
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:12 am

Yeah that was one of the first things I'd checked. I hadn't changed anything from default but now have both preset folders set to Read/Write for all users to err on the side of caution but makes no difference. Also ran an error check of the HD and have turned AU support on and off several times and rescanned them. aupresets show fine in Live 9, just not Live 10 (except in the places section, but not the proper way using the dropdown arrows next to each plugin in the Plugins section). As a workaround I've added my most used preset folders to favourites so I don't have to browse to them each time but that's not ideal.

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:00 am

@Muze
I checked where my AU-presets end up and they don't go into "~/Library/Audio/Presets" but into my "User Library". That's when I press the "Save preset" button in the device bar. I'm not sure how Ableton mean you could get into the former. When I save plug-in presets to "~/Library/Audio/Presets" that's from within the plug-in window and doesn't rely on the Live browser.

Where are your AU-preset files specifically?
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:20 am

~/Library/Audio/Presets for user, and Library/Audio/Presets for factory, these are the default system preset locations and Live 9 sees them fine so L10 should too. However I can try saving a couple of presets into the Live user library just to see what happens (but that won't help with accesing factory plugin presets which is what I most need)

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:23 pm

Muze wrote:~/Library/Audio/Presets for user, and Library/Audio/Presets for factory, these are the default system preset locations and Live 9 sees them fine so L10 should too. However I can try saving a couple of presets into the Live user library just to see what happens (but that won't help with accesing factory plugin presets which is what I most need)
OK. What happens if you load a preset inside your AU plug-in, go back to device view and click the "Save Preset" button in the device? Which of these folders does Live go to? Are you able to save an AU-preset at all and can you see it at that point? If you can, is it only when you return to load it that you can't see these presets?

What happens if you click the how swap button of the device? Where does Live go? In my case it goes to my User Library where the presets under the plug-in AU listing resides and not at all to "~Library/Audio/Presets" where there are no AU presets for my "Z3TA+ 2" nor any other AU plug-in.

I do wonder what is actually the default path of Live 10. I do have my User Library in a non-standard place: "~/Documents/Music/Ableton/User Library" so that's likely a difference between our installations.

Do you have a suggestion for a free plug-in that comes with factory AU presets that I can try?
Make some music!

Stromkraft
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Stromkraft » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:58 pm

Actually I found that Sinevibes free AU plug-in Atom comes with factory AU presets stored in /Library/Audio/Presets. These are also listed properly:

Image

I'm thinking that the cause for your issues also could be a cached or saved state of Live's. Which might sound far-fetched, but if the files are where they are supposed to be on disk, there must be a reason why they are not listed on your machine.

Maybe the previous bug changed the state of the disk and failed to properly fix it at the update? What does Ableton say about this issue if anything?
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Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 pm

They are not sure yet, I was under the impression though that other people also have this problem, at least they tell me they can replicate it. So I don't think it's quite as localised to my computer as that. tbh the whole point of starting this thread was to see if others are experiencing the problem and if there was something I could do on my system to change things before reporting it as a bug, I've done that now anyway but it would still be helpful if anyone else can confirm or deny so we can whittle down some common factors.

Muze
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Re: aupresets still broken in 10.02

Post by Muze » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:35 pm

I've had time to try saving an aupreset to my user library now - that shows there but then so do other aupresets in that part of the browser (ie Places) but it still doesn't make them show opening out the dropdown arrow next to the plugin itself. I think there is something not happening that should with the background scanner. When I do the same in Live 9 you see the little spinny circle next to 'Places' whenever you open a folder of aupresets or add some but in Live 10 nothing happens. It scans for samples but I don't think it is for aupresets.

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