Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
Hi there!
I am trying to control my external drum machine (Vermona drm1 MKIII) using a drum rack in Ableton.
I have 8 midi channels (9-16) communicating with my drum machine.
On my drum machine each sound is set on a different midi channel:
midi channel 9: kick
midi channel 10: dr1
midi channel 11: dr2
midi channel 12: multi
midi channel 13: snare
midi channel 14: HH1
midi channel 15: HH2
midi channel 16: clap
In Ableton, I have a drum rack with different external instruments on it.
Each instance has a different 'midi to' that communicates with the corresponding midi channel of the vermona drum machine.
The 'audio from' are always the same 2 inputs (stereo)
On the overview beneath, you can see that Ableton makes a track for each instance, so for each midi channel.
In the Vermona track, I make my rythms as I want then:
The problem is, when I'm muting one instance, or when I set the 'audio from' to 'no input' for one instance, I can still hear it thru the others. Meaning, I think, that the midi channels don't matter? Every subtrack operates in the same way. Or am I missing something? Overlooking something? On top of that, I have a synth on midi channel 8, that comes in on a different track in ableton using a different input, but when I play something from my drumrack, the audio comes in there as well .. This synth is in the same midi daisy chain as the vermona, maybe something to do with that? I don't know ..
If someone can help me out with this, would be great!
Thanks a lot!
I am trying to control my external drum machine (Vermona drm1 MKIII) using a drum rack in Ableton.
I have 8 midi channels (9-16) communicating with my drum machine.
On my drum machine each sound is set on a different midi channel:
midi channel 9: kick
midi channel 10: dr1
midi channel 11: dr2
midi channel 12: multi
midi channel 13: snare
midi channel 14: HH1
midi channel 15: HH2
midi channel 16: clap
In Ableton, I have a drum rack with different external instruments on it.
Each instance has a different 'midi to' that communicates with the corresponding midi channel of the vermona drum machine.
The 'audio from' are always the same 2 inputs (stereo)
On the overview beneath, you can see that Ableton makes a track for each instance, so for each midi channel.
In the Vermona track, I make my rythms as I want then:
The problem is, when I'm muting one instance, or when I set the 'audio from' to 'no input' for one instance, I can still hear it thru the others. Meaning, I think, that the midi channels don't matter? Every subtrack operates in the same way. Or am I missing something? Overlooking something? On top of that, I have a synth on midi channel 8, that comes in on a different track in ableton using a different input, but when I play something from my drumrack, the audio comes in there as well .. This synth is in the same midi daisy chain as the vermona, maybe something to do with that? I don't know ..
If someone can help me out with this, would be great!
Thanks a lot!
Last edited by MThorrez on Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
Don't know why the images are not showing, but you can copy the link in a different tab ..
Thanks again!
M.
Thanks again!
M.
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
You have your input set to All Ins, All Channels. This is why your keyboard is triggering the drums.
I wouldn't put each pad on its own channel. Just run a single channel and let the note values be the different pads, and the velocity of the pad control the dynamics of each sound.
You're using up way too many channels for one function.
I wouldn't put each pad on its own channel. Just run a single channel and let the note values be the different pads, and the velocity of the pad control the dynamics of each sound.
You're using up way too many channels for one function.
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Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
I'm not sure if I understand what you mean ..arretx wrote:You have your input set to All Ins, All Channels. This is why your keyboard is triggering the drums.
I wouldn't put each pad on its own channel. Just run a single channel and let the note values be the different pads, and the velocity of the pad control the dynamics of each sound.
You're using up way too many channels for one function.
Are you suggesting that I use 1 track with only 1 channel f.e. midi channel 9 and then put a drumrack on that track and then what?
What's the instrument on that rack then? Because now I use an external instrument instance as an instrument, to indicate the different midi channels ..
I don't get why this is a solution for my problem. This is just, maybe, a more simple way to obtain what I have now? (connect via only 1 midi channel, instead of 8 different ones) But the problem is still effective, no?
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
I don't have a midi keyboard or pads to trigger ableton, it's the other way around, I want to use ableton to trigger a drum synth.
If I use the same midi channel for each sound, then I'm gonna hear 8 sounds at the same time, so I need 8 different midi channels so I can trigger them separately.
The only thing is the audio, maybe I need 8 different inputs as well .. but that would be crazy. There has to be a workaround.
If I use the same midi channel for each sound, then I'm gonna hear 8 sounds at the same time, so I need 8 different midi channels so I can trigger them separately.
The only thing is the audio, maybe I need 8 different inputs as well .. but that would be crazy. There has to be a workaround.
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Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
So what you're saying here is that your drum synth, the Vermona, does not limit the playable trigger by note, but rather by MIDI channel. This is the reason why you need your setup? I'm just attempting to clarify this as other members may not have used the Vermona.MThorrez wrote:… I want to use ableton to trigger a drum synth.
If I use the same midi channel for each sound, then I'm gonna hear 8 sounds at the same time, so I need 8 different midi channels so I can trigger them separately.
Make some music!
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Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
What specifically do you mean with "can still hear it thru the others"? What do you hear if you solo one of them?MThorrez wrote: The problem is, when I'm muting one instance, or when I set the 'audio from' to 'no input' for one instance, I can still hear it thru the others.
Make some music!
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
Imagine I only want to trigger the kick, that means in my case, I would draw a midi note C1 in the vermona track and loop it.Stromkraft wrote:What specifically do you mean with "can still hear it thru the others"? What do you hear if you solo one of them?MThorrez wrote: The problem is, when I'm muting one instance, or when I set the 'audio from' to 'no input' for one instance, I can still hear it thru the others.
The kick on my vermona listens to midi channel 9.
In my drumrack, I put kick on C1 / 'midi to' on usb uno midi interface, channel 9 / 'audio from' on input 13&14
When I mute the subtrack 'kick dry' (overview picture), I can still hear the kick on the other tracks 'dr 1 dry', 'dr 2 dry', 'multi dry' and so on .. because they are set to the audio 13&14 as well. Is there another way, so I can only have the audio of my kick on the first 'kick dry' subtrack, without using 8 different inputs?
Other example. When I have a kick and a snare drawn in the vermona track and loop it, that means my drumrack is triggering C1 on midi channel 9 for the kick and sending it to input 13&14 AND triggering G1 on midi channel 13 for the snare and sending it to input 13&14. When I solo the 'kick dry', I hear both the kick and the snare, but I only want to hear the kick, not the snare .. Can I make something that does this? I can't figure this out ..
Sry if I'm complicating things that are maybe not that complicated
Thanks!
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Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
Try this...
Scrap all those channels and just load a default empty drum rack.
Grab the "External Instrument" device and drag that onto a pad
Configure the MIDI TO output to send the MIDI/Channel when the pad is hit and if you are listening to audio, set the channel that the audio is connected to in the Audio From section
Should allow you to now send MIDI out and receive Audio back all on a single pad. I say Should because I have not done this for external gear, just internal drum modules and i'm thinking off the top of my head but sounds like it will solve your issue unless I haven't read things right.
Scrap all those channels and just load a default empty drum rack.
Grab the "External Instrument" device and drag that onto a pad
Configure the MIDI TO output to send the MIDI/Channel when the pad is hit and if you are listening to audio, set the channel that the audio is connected to in the Audio From section
Should allow you to now send MIDI out and receive Audio back all on a single pad. I say Should because I have not done this for external gear, just internal drum modules and i'm thinking off the top of my head but sounds like it will solve your issue unless I haven't read things right.
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Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
This is all natural first reactions to the drum rack. It's a versatile idea.MThorrez wrote:
Sry if I'm complicating things that are maybe not that complicated :)
If you want to be able to separate audio you need to use the different audio outputs of the Vermona and connect these to the audio inputs of your audio interface and then select these in your External Instrument according the drum voice. I don't see any escape from that as when you have mixed audio in your main outputs of the Vermona it's not possible to just unmix these. My apologies If I misunderstand what you want to be able to do.MThorrez wrote: In my drumrack, I put kick on C1 / 'midi to' on usb uno midi interface, channel 9 / 'audio from' on input 13&14
When I mute the subtrack 'kick dry' (overview picture), I can still hear the kick on the other tracks 'dr 1 dry', 'dr 2 dry', 'multi dry' and so on .. because they are set to the audio 13&14 as well. Is there another way, so I can only have the audio of my kick on the first 'kick dry' subtrack, without using 8 different inputs?
An alternative strategy to using separate outs is to mute the MIDI in the clip itself by selecting a row in the piano roll and press the "0" key to toggle the selected notes between active and inactive.
I might add that I view this with the MIDI channels as part of your setup which I believe is not really influencing your options here. You can't filter anything on MIDI channel as that happens last and is done directly to the MIDI bus.
What is left is filtering MIDI notes, i e the triggers, before that step or alternatively use audio separation.
Make some music!
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
I found this:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=203086&p=1744410#p1744410
Maybe this is easier to understand than my complex explanations
Conclusion: It can't be done.
Shame shame
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=203086&p=1744410#p1744410
Maybe this is easier to understand than my complex explanations
Conclusion: It can't be done.
Shame shame
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- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
You did not like my workaround suggestion above, inactivating/reactivating note events in the clips?MThorrez wrote: Conclusion: It can't be done.
Make some music!
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
It's useless for me actually ..Stromkraft wrote:You did not like my workaround suggestion above, inactivating/reactivating note events in the clips?MThorrez wrote: Conclusion: It can't be done.
I made a little video to explain it in a better way:
VIDEO
I made everything a little more simple.
Just 2 tracks kick and clap that are triggering my vermona.
On each individual track I made a drumrack with in it, the external instrument with midi to and audio from parameters.
I also added an EQ to show you what the problem is, because when I use my vermona, I want to be able to f.e. eq the kick separately.
This is not possible. The clap is eq'ing in the same way despite the fact that the eq of the clap is in another drumrack.
Thanks anyway for all the help you guys! Awesome how people are willing to think along here.
Re: Problems with different midi channels and drum rack
You can try dropping a Velocity device on that pad, set to Clip mode and "Out Hi" set to 0. Or Gate mode and Range set to 0.
Also simply changing the "Receive" note on the pad's Chain to a note that isn't played by the external hardware.
[edit: Oops, maybe it is the reverse, change the "Receive" note to a note that isn't being sent to the Drum Rack. Since a Pad only receives one note.]
[edit2: Simply disabling the specific External Device works too]
Also simply changing the "Receive" note on the pad's Chain to a note that isn't played by the external hardware.
[edit: Oops, maybe it is the reverse, change the "Receive" note to a note that isn't being sent to the Drum Rack. Since a Pad only receives one note.]
[edit2: Simply disabling the specific External Device works too]
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