Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

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chapelier fou
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Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by chapelier fou » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:17 pm

Here is why I am terribly disappointed with Ableton Link.
At first, Ableton Link seemed really nice, stable, and easy to set up.
Today, I've worked with a friend, him playing clarinets, me playing violins. Our current project is mainly based on audio loops live recording (in audio clips). The main problem is that, when you use Link, Live inserts Warp markers here and there in recorded clips. This makes the overall sound quality totally unacceptable. I mean you can definitely hear hiccups when the playhead crosses warp markers.
When not using Link, no Warp markers are inserted.
I tried both Beats and Re-pitch warp modes, as they are meant to be neutral. Re-pitch seems a bit better but still not acceptable at all.

In comparison, MIDI sync is generally less stable, but at least for the Master computer, audio recordings are left untouched. But we can't use MIDI sync here since we're both live looping our instruments.

All in all, we ended up with playing with no sync at all, which ironically seems the best solution.

It's funny, as yesterday I've been proposed to lead a workshop about Ableton Live with classical players. My reply was "well, why not, but you know, this is exactly the kind of context where there are so many questions and problems".

As a side note, my next idea would be to make a M4L patch that would erase warp markers. But the API doesn't allow this, does it ?
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

pottering
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by pottering » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:36 pm

It is not exactly Link, I recorded a sample (just a loop recorded w/ "Resampling") while changing the BPM manually, and it inserted a Warp marker every time I changed the BPM.

Seems recorded audio is always auto-warped in Live. Googling it, seems it is a long standing complaint (like not looping unwarped audio).

Now with Link making BPM changes very common maybe they will rethink it?

There is this "Anti-Warp" device:

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/free-st ... atis-hits/

At first it didn't work with a new set (which I guess saved WAVs in cache folder hidden somewhere), but after saving to a new project it works.

chapelier fou
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by chapelier fou » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks for your input.
I think that what you describe is normal. If you change tempo, that makes sense.
Thanks for reminding me of anti-warp, that could be a nice starting point.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

garyboozy
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by garyboozy » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:24 pm

could be a bug – as you say, when tempo changes occur, auto-added warp markers makes sense.
but when 2 or more apps are Linked, markers are added even when no tempo alteration is made.
maybe Link has tiny tempo variations which are then picked up when recording..? worth reporting anyway.

chapelier fou
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by chapelier fou » Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:14 am

I finally dropped them an e-mail. Waiting for an answer, but no illusions.
I've been struggling with different livelooping setups for about 15 years now, and sadly, no setup offers a decent solution for several players. Well, there is one : use only one computer and route every instruments to it, then remotely control respective tracks. At least it's stable.
Unfortunately, for the project I'm currently working for, my friend and I are playing simultaneously, but on different places (about 100 meters distant). Weird, I know, but fun experiment.
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

[jur]
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by [jur] » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:07 pm

While annoying in such situation, it makes perfect sense that Live adds warp markers if there's any BPM change while recording.
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chapelier fou
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Re: Ableton Link + Livelooping = fail

Post by chapelier fou » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:58 am

[jur] wrote:While annoying in such situation, it makes perfect sense that Live adds warp markers if there's any BPM change while recording.
That’s precisely the issue : it adds warp markers even without tempo changes
MacBook Pro 13" Retina i7 2.8 GHz OS 10.13, L10.0.1, M4L.
iMac 27" Retina i5 3,2 GHz OS 10.11.3 L10.0.1 M4L.

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