Mac CPU Issue?

[Vetala]

Hi,
I recently bought an Akai APC 25 and decided to explore Ableton Lite 9 a little more. However, it seems that although my computer meets all the requirements, it can hardly do anything with Ableton. For instance, if I use one of the preset sounds (say, African Bars) it immediately chews up 35/45% of CPU capacity. and if I add a couple of effects, it quickly "chokes", with crackling sounds, etc.
I have tried reinstalling the OS, and I've also tried the usual "reduce CPU usage" tips I've seen online. Nothing seems to work. I'm pretty sure there must something wrong with my CPU, as I guess that such simple operations are not supposed to take up so much CPU usage - I'm not even using dozens of pre-recorded scenes, as I've seen people doing on YouTube.

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance

Specs:
Mac OS Sierra
2,4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

[mikegao]

I’ve been using Ableton for a couple years and seems like slowly things have gotten worse.
Sometimes an operator or wave table patch will fluctuate +/- 60% really fast making me think something is wrong w ableton internally and not just my issue.
I’ve emailed support and tried a couple things below:

Somethings i realized:
- Ableton push 2 uses 30-40 % cpu on the display
- Nested projects and large nested directories of projects in browser can cause lots of cpu usage maybe Ahleton indexing
- Check Console for errors, if lots of errors it could be this Melodyne rewire bug
https://twitter.com/mikegao/status/871489297844588544
- I have a suspicion there is some timebombing code or maybe Ableton x Certain developers or iLok has some kinda time bomb CPU shit to punish ppl for cracks OR
There’s some kinda memory leak or some kinda bug that takes 30-40 mins
of Ableton usage to kick in.
- Once the buggy type high CPU is triggered, deleting VSTs from project helps but still leaves u in this high CPU state until you restart the app/computer.
- One support email said to reinstall and delete all old Abletons and that i might have had a cracked Ableton he could detect in the past which seems unlikely coz I’ve owned legit ableton for almost 10 years.
- Ran geekbench coz i started suspecting stuff was awry w my CPU but it was fine
- In 2016, i bought a new MBP just because of this issue thinking it was the computer. I did a carbon copy of the computer and ran into the same cpu issues as before, so maybe it’s about time i start completely fresh
- Chrome will use mad CPU sometimes
- running 2 monitors on my MBP gives me cpu issues
- Ppl have complaints about CPU on PC Ableton usually due to some CPU or power saving settings that once they fix seems to give them superior performance. Saw a guy with insane amount of Serum Diva instances when i could barely run a handful. Seems like years ago i could do much more
- Resorted to mostly bouncing stuff down and working on top of existing projects
Entire workflow on Ableton has slowly gotten to the pt of not feeling like writing new stuff on top of big projects, bounce it down -> write on top of it in a fresh project and then take the bounce/frozen layers back into the original, or not take it back just continue to work on it in this way
- I’ve had similar cpu issues but never seen the CPU meter jump up and down fast fluctuating until Ableton 10.
- Plugins i have suspicions on are WAves and Fabfilter pro Q linear eq preset i used to use a lot, Ableton convolution reverb
- maybe a fresh install will fix everything and carbon copying so many years of stuff is a nono
- UAD mixer console seems to take up a lot of cpu. Back when i had uad dsp only and not a uad interface, it didn’t seem like it ate up any cpu
- Some ppl have claimed that its helped after SMC reset Pram reset etc
- can open up ur MBP and clean it up to rule out dust and stuff causing overheating causing kernel task to go crazy to cool your cpu

Mbp 2.8ghz Sierra

[Stromkraft]

- Ableton push 2 uses 30-40 % cpu on the display

You don't have a dedicated graphics card? People say Push 2 graphics run on that now, if you have it.

- Nested projects and large nested directories of projects in browser can cause lots of cpu usage maybe Ahleton indexing

Why are you doing this to yourself? What reasons could there be for nested projects?

- I’ve had similar cpu issues but never seen the CPU meter jump up and down fast fluctuating until Ableton 10.

That's because it's more sensitive and fast. CPU Load changes with everything with every single sample, more or less.

[Stromkraft]

For instance, if I use one of the preset sounds (say, African Bars) it immediately chews up 35/45% of CPU capacity. and if I add a couple of effects, it quickly "chokes", with crackling sounds, etc.
I have tried reinstalling the OS, and I've also tried the usual "reduce CPU usage" tips I've seen online. Nothing seems to work.

…

Specs:
Mac OS Sierra
2,4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

You leave out audio interface, audio buffer and that's a very, very old and slow machine. Is it a 2007/08 15" or 2010 13"?

[jestermgee]

Mac issues appear to be cropping up for more and more Mac users lately (not all but certainly more apparent than a few years ago). In several forums I frequent it seems to be all the same complaints with poor CPU performance, much less capable workloads than previously possible, long load times of some software/plugins and in many cases these are top of the line models. I'm not a Mac user and I have probably a better experience now under Win 10 than ever.

- I have a suspicion there is some timebombing code or maybe Ableton x Certain developers or iLok has some kinda time bomb CPU shit to punish ppl for cracks OR There’s some kinda memory leak or some kinda bug that takes 30-40 mins

If you have installed any kind of non-legit software and you have issues at all then you may want to have some concern and perhaps wake up to the fact the issues could be from the illigitemate software since it's the most common way of malicious code deployment. In a previous life I used a "free" copy of Fruity Studio a friend gave me and started having weird system issues, poor performance etc. This was in Windows 2000 and even after a complete system re-install (and not installing fruity) I still had the same issues. Long story short, it was apparently a very sophisticated virus that somehow installed into the MBR of the HDD and could re-replicate as soon as an internet connection was available even after a complete HDD format so basically I needed a new HDD as I had no idea what else to do back then. Not cheap back in those days either.

Code injection methods have become way more sophisticated nowadays and can go completely undetected. Now I have 2 decades of in depth computer knowledge I wouldn't ever risk my home network to cracked software, the risks are all too real.

[Stromkraft]

Now I have 2 decades of in depth computer knowledge I wouldn't ever risk my home network to cracked software, the risks are all too real.

Thing is that with music you can't use everything and be great at it, so it's way better to select few tools that you pay for — or use a selection of also free tools — and learn them inside out. You can make complete songs with one single instrument on every track if you want. I vowed recently to make a song with only one and it became one of my greatest ones.

And yeah, using pirated software for production isn't worth it. Why would you risk your production machine with pirated software? That's asking for problems. If you must test something without a demo you can run it in a virtual machine — Oracle's Virtual Box is free — before you get the real thing.

Being a full owner of a license also places you in a relationship with the creators, or their support anyway which can be the same among small developers. In many cases you get excellent help from the support. The pirated software community isn't as knowledgeable in comparison. When you pay for your software you also know you do something for said software being there in the future and for small developers your contributions make a part of their living possible. That's quite sweet actually.

[Stromkraft]

Mac issues appear to be cropping up for more and more Mac users lately (not all but certainly more apparent than a few years ago). In several forums I frequent it seems to be all the same complaints with poor CPU performance, much less capable workloads than previously possible, long load times of some software/plugins and in many cases these are top of the line models. I'm not a Mac user and I have probably a better experience now under Win 10 than ever.

Oh, yeah? Strange thing then I hear even more complaints about the same issues from Windows users. This is not a platform problem. It's about people not understanding their machines they've bought and what they ask from them. In some cases there are specific issues that needs fine tuning to be resolved.

[Stromkraft]

For instance, if I use one of the preset sounds (say, African Bars) it immediately chews up 35/45% of CPU capacity. and if I add a couple of effects, it quickly "chokes", with crackling sounds, etc.

Just to compare I played this preset in Simpler with an audio buffer of 64 samples in the native audio, using Eareverb and Grain Delay plus Cleansweep, FreeG and Glue on 2 return tracks. I get about 20% on the native CPU Load meter. With 10 tracks playing this preset I get about 40%. This machine is 3 years later than yours and is still very old.

That said I used a 2009 MBP last autumn with a Core2Duo and it was very possible to make music with it, but I had to freeze or commit most tracks though not all. I adapted the audio buffer settings to the load. I still wonder what settings you used for this?

[jestermgee]

Oh, yeah?

Yeah, for real

[jestermgee]

Strange thing then I hear even more complaints about the same issues from Windows users.

It is strange that, since on forum page 1 there are several threads all about the same kinds of issus (CPU/GPU/Lag), all related pretty much to Mac, all with you in them (which is a given when it's Mac related).

Same kinds of issues cropping up on Native Instrument forums too, mostly all Mac users.

The OP is likely different here because they have an ancient coreDuo.

I'm not even remotely trying to shoot down Mac so don't get defensive, It just seems there are more issues lately cropping up which might just be more than "people not knowing how to use their machines", that's a pretty blanket statement. Isn't that the point of the MacOS? It's easy and straight forward for people that just want to get to work and not stuff around with BIOS and performance tweaks like PC Power users.

[scheffkoch]

....without getting into a pc-mac debate: according to the last beta release notes there seemed to be problems with windows computers...but whatever...my 2016 15'' (!=quadcore) runs so smooth with even the biggest live sets it's unbelievable...and i do multitrack recording while playing all my soft synths, fx and so on...i also blame my rme multiface for the top performance...

[Stromkraft]

BIOS and performance tweaks like PC Power users.

Fail. These are not "most PC users". Most PC users buy a cheap PC and expect MacBook Pro performance and fail to set up BIOS properly. Those that get that paid for it.

I am in the Macworld and quite a few of my music producer friends have MBPs (probably all of them these days). How many have have issues longer than a short while? No-one, except myself as I use older machines. And none of these people I know are on here. Maybe because they don't have any issues. This group is just as valid as your "perception statistics" of the online world.

You cannot tell from online posts how many have issues. It's total abdication from reason to think that those are all users or that they represent a statistically relevant strata.

It's true that on OS X 10.9 to 10.11 there was a CoreAudio bug affecting some users, including myself in 10.9 (switching audio interface fixed that). That bug is gone in macOS 10.12. I still state that macoS 10.12 "Sierra" (not 10.13 High S.) is "the new 10.6", regarded in the old era by quite a few people as the most stable and mature OS on macs up to that point.

No, the main problem here is Live itself, certain plug-ins, pirated plug-ins and skewed expectations, not understanding different hardware requirements. I claim this is equal both among PC users and mac users. That's my perception and I think I've been longer in this game than you and hear more issues than you'd care to shake a controller at. Your willingness to divide these user groups contribute very little, unless you're specific.

You are a talented problem solver, so it's not that you can't see this. It's just that you choose to see it that way you presented. It's not as impressive as many of your other posts, that are often right on the money.

[[jur]]

Please don't run into a sterile mac/pc fight.

[Vetala]

Thanks for your suggestions, Mikegao.
I'll do my research and see if I can find a solution based on your many tips.

Stormkraft:
First of all, thanks for your reply. My Mac is definitely old, mid-2010. I just assumed that since it meets all minimal requirements announced by Ableton, it would work fine. These were the settings for the example I mentioned before:
- Buffer size: 64 samples
- Sample rate: 44100
You say that your old Mac works just fine. Do you think mine is hopeless? Could a RAM upgrade solve or mitigate the issue?

Cheers,
V

[mikegao]

Hello stromkraft
Seeing that you answer on all the cpu threads and have the knowledge and are so handy with quoting on here you are probably an ableton community person? Appreciate the replies

You don't have a dedicated graphics card? People say Push 2 graphics run on that now, if you have it.

I have my system specs above w a switching Mbp card doesn’t that count? But I run an external monitor w laptop closed.

- Nested projects and large nested directories of projects in browser can cause lots of cpu usage maybe Ahleton indexing

Now I don’t do this anymore I’m sure many ppl just end up saving their project where they saved their last project. I think it has to do with design of the saving procedure should maybe go up to parent directory so ppl don’t do it. The bigger issue is I had the master directory that has everything, samples, all sets and some nests all in browser. Taking it out might have helped
Why are you doing this to yourself? What reasons could there be for nested projects?

About the pirating thing, it is purely based on conjecture to discuss the possibility of cpu lag time bomb (tho i Feel like companies wouldn’t do that because it could hurt the potential of how heavy their product runs.
Like I stated in the post, despite having legit Ableton for a decade, the customer service person said to clean up all abletons Incase there was a cracked one in the past ?


Wonder if there’s a way we can use a diagnostics instrument to trace what the cpu is doing when it’s going crazy

Vitala 64 is pretty small and fast. Try 256 or 512