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should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:37 am
by highbreed
Hi users I'm fairly retarded but still managed to survive 3 versions of live without asking a question but today I feel I need an expert!....I just moved systems upgrading from a '2008 2.8ghz iMac core 2 duo with 4gb' running '32 bit ableton' to a '2012 2.4ghz MacBook Pro intel core i7 with 16gb' running '64bit ableton'.... both using SSDs...now my goal was to use more instance's of CPU hungry plugins like Kontakt and Reaktor so I launch Reaktor to play with big pig polyplex to test my new system guess what happens?.....CPU overload at 44100 with no keys pressed Reaktor turns off... so I know how to play with sample rate etc and I have the new polyplex version with single instance's but I was amazed that may old iMac would only show 20-30% when using polyplex which was 32bit with 4gb against the new MacBook 64 bit with 16gb?...what am I missing?.. I can't believe it and molekular too basically everything in Reaktor uses 4x as much cpu?....am I retarded?

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:33 pm
by justanametouse
Have you checked the buffer size and that multicore is on?

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:57 pm
by highbreed
I've tried everything... I just did a side by side with my 2 computers its not just native instruments its all my third party plug ins in Live... everything is using 4x the cpu... so I know its on abletons side?.... cannot believe my core duo 2 IMAC running 32 bit with 4gb is crapping on my i7 MacBook running 64 bit with 16gb the processors are different but my i7 should crap on the core 2 duo?.....just wasted 7 hours I guess doubt its my OS.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:21 pm
by jlgrimes
I will say Polyplex is a hog.

Ram probably isn't an issue.

Buffer size could have something to do with it but that sucks.

Probably a multicore issue or bug on Ableton or NIs part.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:59 pm
by highbreed
live is running at 2% cpu with one empty audio track....I'd say it's live only other thing that would make the difference is OS my new computer is running Sierra and my old computer is running El Capitan...have hit up support hopefully a simple fix.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:49 pm
by H20nly
Can you install 32 bit versions of Kontakt and/or Reaktor and only run Live in 64 bit?

if so, maybe you can force the them to play reasonably while giving the host the headroom to oversee it all.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:57 pm
by jestermgee
Audio Interface?

Would probably help with CPU intensive audio processing

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:12 am
by highbreed
true jester I need a firewire 800 to 400 cable to try that but when I did the side by side with both computers both were using the computers built in/out..

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:16 am
by highbreed
H20nly wrote:Can you install 32 bit versions of Kontakt and/or Reaktor and only run Live in 64 bit?

if so, maybe you can force the them to play reasonably while giving the host the headroom to oversee it all.

Is that possible I was under the impression 32 bit plug ins would not work with 64 bit live I don't remember being given a choice of 64 vs 32 bit with any plug in?..I'm using Mac not windows.....even so like I said above all my third party plug ins and live effects etc are running 4 x the cpu not just Kontakt/reaktor so I guess its live not the plug ins...even at idle using 512 buffer live is showing 1 -2% cpu with one empty track?

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:49 am
by H20nly
well, you would have to use a bridge to get conventional plugins to work across bit depths in the OS.

if it's affecting all your plugins though, then my point is moot.

i would check the power settings on the Macbook and make sure your CPU isn't being throttled and/or try a reinstall of Live

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:41 am
by highbreed
H20nly wrote:well, you would have to use a bridge to get conventional plugins to work across bit depths in the OS.

if it's affecting all your plugins though, then my point is moot.

i would check the power settings on the Macbook and make sure your CPU isn't being throttled and/or try a reinstall of Live

I would prefer to have a 64bit system that works my impression was a plug in using 64 bit would out perform 32 bit especially with 4 x the amount of RAM....power settings have been ticked off ran diagnostics no trouble with the MacBook hardware...so disappointed considering the time spent fortunately my old iMac is still going...IDK why my higher spec MacBook is being crushed by the iMac...anyone running a computer that shows less than 20% cpu for Reaktor?...

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:39 pm
by login
There must something wrong that is not normal at all, so check that everything is up to date, that would be the main suspect.

But this probably can only be solved with Ableton Support.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:42 pm
by H20nly
highbreed wrote: my impression was a plug in using 64 bit would out perform 32 bit especially with 4 x the amount of RAM
RAM is the keyword (keyterm?)... 64 bits allows you to use more RAM.

in my first, somewhat shortsighted, post... that's where my mind was... if Live can use all 32 GB and the plugins are limited to 4 GB then you have more headroom in Live. but i seriously was having a moment of derp.

anyway... you are correct. you should be seeing a performance boost.

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:00 am
by highbreed
login wrote:There must something wrong that is not normal at all, so check that everything is up to date, that would be the main suspect.

But this probably can only be solved with Ableton Support.

support has not helped at all just links to info I already understand....reaktor using 64 bit live '80-95%' cpu ....reaktor using 32 bit live 10-25%cpu....everything is up to date the fact that my old system used older versions and older OS proves its not updates I've reinstalled live to no effect next is to try running 32 bit on my new Mac to see if its that....what a pain!

Re: should 64 bit with 16gb be better than 32 bit with 4gb?

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:02 am
by highbreed
H20nly wrote:
highbreed wrote: my impression was a plug in using 64 bit would out perform 32 bit especially with 4 x the amount of RAM
RAM is the keyword (keyterm?)... 64 bits allows you to use more RAM.

in my first, somewhat shortsighted, post... that's where my mind was... if Live can use all 32 GB and the plugins are limited to 4 GB then you have more headroom in Live. but i seriously was having a moment of derp.

anyway... you are correct. you should be seeing a performance boost.

even if it ran the same as 32 I'd be cool but everything running at 4 x cpu is a joke going to try running 32 bit live on the new computer to compare....thanks for the replies guys.