Sudden volume drop of one track n Live 10.0.5

[Dirk C]

OK, I resume a problem that I'v stated in another post (which I can't delete and contained more intermediate steps).

I have a small project: 5 MIDI-channels with a VST on each. I play it and all of a sudden there is a serious volume drop of one of the channels: there is NO automation involved and on the mixer it looks like the volume of the source has dropped (pot stays in the same position).

I completely uninstalled Live - as explained on the site (including the hidden files) - re-installed Live 10.0.5 and the same problem occurs.

I made another small project (also 5 MIDI tracks with VST's linked to them): same problem, but another track was dimmed just like that at a random place.

What can I do?

I run it on a PC and Win 10.

[oratowsky]

Are you working in session or arrangement view?

Have you checked clip automation as well as arrangement automation?

IWhat VSTs? Is it the same VST ?

[Shift Gorden]

What VST? Any side-chaining? Any effects on any channels?

[Dirk C]

Are you working in session or arrangement view?

Have you checked clip automation as well as arrangement automation?

IWhat VSTs? Is it the same VST ?

There is no automation active: never applied it and I've checked it also. If that was the case I should see the fader change position, which is not the case.

VST's: Sonatina Orchestra on 4 tracks; VSCO2 on 1 track.

When I resume the same track after the volume dropped somewhere in the middle, the loss of volume starts from the beginning. Only after reloading the project I'm in the same situation as described.

Yesterday I had Live 10.0.3 and everything ran fine. After installing 10.0.5 the problem appeared. But on the Ableton site that old version is no longer available.

In another project with other VST's I had the exactly the same problem: the volume drops in one track.

I've installed Live 10.0.5 on another PC, I'v run the same project and had the same problem...

[Dirk C]

Are you working in session or arrangement view?

Have you checked clip automation as well as arrangement automation?

IWhat VSTs? Is it the same VST ?

I work in the arrangement view.

What do you suggest by asking if it is the same VST?

[Dirk C]

What VST? Any side-chaining? Any effects on any channels?

VST's: Sonatina Orchestra on 4 tracks; VSCO2 on 1 track.

No side-chaining, no effects on any channel. As a matter of fact it is the most simple project you can image!

[oratowsky]

puzzling indeed. maybe some weird 10.0.5 specific thing is giving bad commands to your VSTs.

This occurred on mac on 10.0.2 with audio units that would result in random parameter changes

You can download 10.0.3 here, give it a try: https://cdn-downloads.ableton.com/chann ... 0.3_64.zip

FYI if you need to do this again you can just replace 10.0.3 with the version you need in the above link ^^^

[Dirk C]

puzzling indeed. maybe some weird 10.0.5 specific thing is giving bad commands to your VSTs.

This occurred on mac on 10.0.2 with audio units that would result in random parameter changes

You can download 10.0.3 here, give it a try: https://cdn-downloads.ableton.com/chann ... 0.3_64.zip

FYI if you need to do this again you can just replace 10.0.3 with the version you need in the above link ^^^

Thanks for the link pal! I'll give it a try tomorrow (here in Europe it is already 11 PM) after having de-installed the latest version. I'll keep you informed!

PS: I've sent the problem also to the support service of Ableton. I'm curious to read their reaction.

[jestermgee]

When the volume dips, what do the meters say?

You mentioned the master meter shows the low level, what about the track volumes? Do any change and show a low volume?

You said that when the volume goes low it then stays low when you replay until you reload? Does certainly sound like something is automated somewhere and it may not be a deliberate automation, could be an accidentally mapped MIDI control that gets triggered at a certain spot.

What about if you switch out the affected instrument on the track and load another and re-test in place?

If you have any FX in your set at all, what about if you remove everything from the master and the affected channel and retest?

[Dirk C]

When the volume dips, what do the meters say?

You mentioned the master meter shows the low level, what about the track volumes? Do any change and show a low volume?

You said that when the volume goes low it then stays low when you replay until you reload? Does certainly sound like something is automated somewhere and it may not be a deliberate automation, could be an accidentally mapped MIDI control that gets triggered at a certain spot.

What about if you switch out the affected instrument on the track and load another and re-test in place?

If you have any FX in your set at all, what about if you remove everything from the master and the affected channel and retest?

In the meantime I've isolated the problem down to 1 track: somewhere in the middle the volume drops (= the fader of that channel stays at the same position, but the leds under it go down). No automation, no effect no nothing applied, just a basic MIDI-file.

If I open the VST (VSCO2) and just touch the volume knob of this VST, then the volume jumps again to the original level. I have another project where exactly the same is happening with one random track, using another VST.

I've run the same project on another PC and the same problem occurs.

Conclusion: Live 10.0.5 is the cause and it sends an unknown interrupt to the VST that changes the volume, which is not acceptable for a version 10 of a DAW!

[Mark Williams]

Sounds like there is something going on with the clip envelope, you may have some sort of automation going on within that clip

[oratowsky]

Ya did 10.0.3 fix this issue?

Because if not, yes as Mark Williams mentioned the culprit could be clip automation or clip modulation , which does NOT show up in automation lanes in Arrange view. It's embedded in the Clip Envelopes.

does it happen if you recreate the project from scratch?

[Dirk C]

Ya did 10.0.3 fix this issue?

Because if not, yes as Mark Williams mentioned the culprit could be clip automation or clip modulation , which does NOT show up in automation lanes in Arrange view. It's embedded in the Clip Envelopes.

does it happen if you recreate the project from scratch?

Oh my God! That tip about the clip automation was the right one! For an unknown reason there is a peak and a downfall created of the expression parameter! No idea were that came from, but I'm soooo happy to have discovered (thanks to you!) a workaround to delete the volume drop.

From my point of view it still is a bug in the software because I didn't touch that parameter, I just had played an extra piece in between an existing clip.
I've sent the problem to the support centre and so I hope there will be a patch to avoid that problem.

But again guys, you have made my day!

Case closed!

[[jur]]

This not a program but a user error dude!
As you've finally discovered there's a modulation (it's different than an automation, check your manual ) in your clip.

[Mark Williams]

Ya did 10.0.3 fix this issue?

Because if not, yes as Mark Williams mentioned the culprit could be clip automation or clip modulation , which does NOT show up in automation lanes in Arrange view. It's embedded in the Clip Envelopes.

does it happen if you recreate the project from scratch?

Oh my God! That tip about the clip automation was the right one! For an unknown reason there is a peak and a downfall created of the expression parameter! No idea were that came from, but I'm soooo happy to have discovered (thanks to you!) a workaround to delete the volume drop.

From my point of view it still is a bug in the software because I didn't touch that parameter, I just had played an extra piece in between an existing clip.
I've sent the problem to the support centre and so I hope there will be a patch to avoid that problem.

But again guys, you have made my day!

Case closed!

It's very easy to just brush a control and before you know it you have clip automation been there done it lol glad its sorted