Ableton

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Ableton

Post by SankoPro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:37 pm

Ableton yea
Last edited by SankoPro on Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:55 am, edited 3 times in total.

doghouse
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by doghouse » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:12 pm

SankoPro wrote:Also note this problem has not occurred Since the launch of LIVE 10.0.5
Is that a typo or do you really mean that since 10.0.5 you have had no more issues?

Thinking that Ableton would deliberately make third party plugins incompatible is pretty paranoid. If they really wanted to force you to use their devices they could just drop VST/AU support altogether. :wink:

Street Spirit
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:56 pm
Location: MI

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by Street Spirit » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:18 pm

Same, although i dont think its Ableton forcing you to use Suite plugins or purchase it, at almost 600$ for an upgrade from 9 is insane .
Have also experienced random crashes and vst gui looked messed up with 10.0.5, other versions of 10 were better. I think they talked about issues with older GPU's or smething
Cool they added a little holiday whopping 15% discount to upgrade. Iam still using their free Lite version they gave away Lol.

Happy New Year

jaze22
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:54 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by jaze22 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:14 pm

Ableton 10 is a PITA, it is always crashing. If it's not one thing it's another. Plus 10 even loses connection to RME Babyface Pro randomly, not some crappy ass driver, but the best in the industry.

I choose to use Live 9 now over 10, plus I find the interface text looks clearer. Everything there works as it should.

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:37 pm

doghouse wrote:
SankoPro wrote:Also note this problem has not occurred Since the launch of LIVE 10.0.5
Is that a typo or do you really mean that since 10.0.5 you have had no more issues?

Thinking that Ableton would deliberately make third party plugins incompatible is pretty paranoid. If they really wanted to force you to use their devices they could just drop VST/AU support altogether. :wink:


yea typo ment to say previous to that version was fine :p

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:42 pm

jaze22 wrote:Ableton 10 is a PITA, it is always crashing. If it's not one thing it's another. Plus 10 even loses connection to RME Babyface Pro randomly, not some crappy ass driver, but the best in the industry.

I choose to use Live 9 now over 10, plus I find the interface text looks clearer. Everything there works as it should.


See i was using Live 9 until it started crashing all the time. You're making me think of going back to it again :p. Also Live 10 was fine until they released 10.0.5 thats when everything started to have problems. Yet, they will not take any responsibility for it yet and will have you contact 3rd party companies like its their fault lol. This overall makes me rethink if i should jump ship to-another platform or not.

jestermgee
Posts: 3845
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Contact:

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by jestermgee » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:04 pm

Firstly, apart from a crash with Legacy Cell once I personally have had no issues nor do I see thousands of people flooding the forums with similar issues. Keep in mind that there are many professionals with large libraries of instruments that use Live so your claim live is trying to monopolize the market doesn't seem based on anything more than your personal issue. For a start, the practice would be highly illegal and totally unethical and would be more damaging to loss of customers than any possible gains so doesn't seem like a very thought out logical conclusion.

While it is probably frustrating, problems have solutions but you need to actually detail how others could recreate a test if you wanted any kind of assistance:
- What are the actual full specs of your system you have issues with (CPU, RAM, SSD?, OS version) audio interface?
- What is the version of a plugin you have issues with (not just "the latest", the actual incremental version so others can compare)?
- Have you deleted lives preferences file and tested with just a default template?
- How is live crashing? Is it when you do something or when you save or...?
- Could it be the case you have some plugin you have loaded in all your sets that could be the cause?

I'm still able to open projects I created in Live 8 with some of the mentioned plugins so whatever the issue it isn't common enough to at least effect me.+

If you are having issues with a lot of different plugins but cannot find anyone else having the same issues with the same plugins then it must be something specific to what you are using or testing with. Make sure you are all up to date with everything, make sure your audio drivers are up to date, video, others etc. Ensure you start Live with a completely default template as it could be some dodgy effect you have on a return or master channel causing issues, not the actual plugins.

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:34 am

jestermgee wrote:Firstly, apart from a crash with Legacy Cell once I personally have had no issues nor do I see thousands of people flooding the forums with similar issues. Keep in mind that there are many professionals with large libraries of instruments that use Live so your claim live is trying to monopolize the market doesn't seem based on anything more than your personal issue. For a start, the practice would be highly illegal and totally unethical and would be more damaging to loss of customers than any possible gains so doesn't seem like a very thought out logical conclusion.

While it is probably frustrating, problems have solutions but you need to actually detail how others could recreate a test if you wanted any kind of assistance:
- What are the actual full specs of your system you have issues with (CPU, RAM, SSD?, OS version) audio interface?
- What is the version of a plugin you have issues with (not just "the latest", the actual incremental version so others can compare)?
- Have you deleted lives preferences file and tested with just a default template?
- How is live crashing? Is it when you do something or when you save or...?
- Could it be the case you have some plugin you have loaded in all your sets that could be the cause?

I'm still able to open projects I created in Live 8 with some of the mentioned plugins so whatever the issue it isn't common enough to at least effect me.+

If you are having issues with a lot of different plugins but cannot find anyone else having the same issues with the same plugins then it must be something specific to what you are using or testing with. Make sure you are all up to date with everything, make sure your audio drivers are up to date, video, others etc. Ensure you start Live with a completely default template as it could be some dodgy effect you have on a return or master channel causing issues, not the actual plugins.


Thats the point of this thread is too see if anyone else is having same issues.. ALso the specs of all computers are the same (windows 10) 16 gig ram 3200-3600mhz . Only difference is cpu which is stated above. Then videos cards are whatever gtx 1080 to vega 64 video cards dont matter.. Also These test are DONE ON SEPARATE COMPUTERS.... 3 of which are not mine but freinds who use ableton as well... So not only has the issues been replicated on 4 different computers i have, but as well as my friends laptops/desktops which is 3. Thats a total of 7 computers this has happened on. How can that be an isolated issue then? Which brings this thread up. It sounds like you're trying to get into a pissing match lol. The whole point of this is to raise a red flag to see who else has issues with the 3rd party plug-ings i have listed above. Also if im being told from Ableton that its 3rd party plug-ing issues and being told by the 3rd parties that they do not see anything wrong one can only ask if this is intentional from the people who write the program from the DAW. Only questions that are asked to bring up a discussion.

Also i woundn't care as much if this was a $60 dollar game but its a pretty big Fking issue when Ive spent $1000+ on Ableton just to have External Plug-ins which cost Way more money not work properly within Ableton.
Last edited by SankoPro on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:43 am

...
Last edited by SankoPro on Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:45 am

jestermgee wrote:Firstly, apart from a crash with Legacy Cell once I personally have had no issues nor do I see thousands of people flooding the forums with similar issues. Keep in mind that there are many professionals with large libraries of instruments that use Live so your claim live is trying to monopolize the market doesn't seem based on anything more than your personal issue. For a start, the practice would be highly illegal and totally unethical and would be more damaging to loss of customers than any possible gains so doesn't seem like a very thought out logical conclusion.

While it is probably frustrating, problems have solutions but you need to actually detail how others could recreate a test if you wanted any kind of assistance:
- What are the actual full specs of your system you have issues with (CPU, RAM, SSD?, OS version) audio interface?
- What is the version of a plugin you have issues with (not just "the latest", the actual incremental version so others can compare)?
- Have you deleted lives preferences file and tested with just a default template?
- How is live crashing? Is it when you do something or when you save or...?
- Could it be the case you have some plugin you have loaded in all your sets that could be the cause?

I'm still able to open projects I created in Live 8 with some of the mentioned plugins so whatever the issue it isn't common enough to at least effect me.+

If you are having issues with a lot of different plugins but cannot find anyone else having the same issues with the same plugins then it must be something specific to what you are using or testing with. Make sure you are all up to date with everything, make sure your audio drivers are up to date, video, others etc. Ensure you start Live with a completely default template as it could be some dodgy effect you have on a return or master channel causing issues, not the actual plugins.


Also there are threads with people having issues with 3rd party plug-ins. Look in the forums. Do a little research next time before you start hating from the get. That's what fan boys do.

jlgrimes
Posts: 1468
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:55 am
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:58 am

SankoPro wrote:Just an honest question really. What i mean by this is that i have had multiple crashes on Live 10 from using 3rd party plug-ins... These plug-ins that CRASH ABLETON ARE NOT RANDOM PLUG-INS. I've tested this on multiple computers and laptops. Ones that have caused most crashes Are anything from Xfer Records, Native instruments including massive etc, DADA life, anything from Fabilter and so on. These either result in an instant crash or over time will make it unable to open your previous work. I have Done all types of trouble shooting, Such as Turning off the plugins and opening the project.... Which this does work.... seems to have been only a short term fix..... Then will result in Crashing Ableton with errors anytime you try opening a Project.

NOW to why my title is what it is... ONLY WHEN AND ONLY WHEN DO I DISABLE/TURN OFF ALL PLUG-INS DOES MY PROJECTS OPEN..... So i ask is this a scheme from ABleton so you only use their products and services over other 3rd parties?

Before you comment Do realize i've tested this on 4 computers that belong to me and 3 others from friends. These all have had similar results on all of them. Test have been done with different storage devices from M.2 to noraml ssd drives. From AMD cpu's like 1700/2700x to Intel 8700k, 8750h, 9900k.
From my conclusion it is a problem with the software not hardware. Also having contacted these companies(3rd party) and talking about the issue these companies were puzzled as to why their apps are having the issues. Even after sending them the information from my computers and detailed crash lists.

Also note this problem has not occurred until the launch of LIVE 10.0.5 and the 10.0.5b or whatever

Please if you have any other input or have had problems with your Live 10 please comment below. Thank you :?

I doubt it is a conspiracy but yes various plugins can and do crash Live. I get occasional crashes on my Mac. But Studio One occasionally crash as well. That said my crashes are somewhat rare. Rare enough it doesn't cause me issues. I use those same vendors as well and they all seem pretty stable on my machines and I perform live on a "Windows" laptop (performances where I get paid) as well. If I had issues best believe I would be making complaints as well (as well as trying to troubleshoot).

The least crash programs I have are Reason, Reaper, and Maschine but even those have faults.

Yes Native plugins are miles more stable but that is just because they are way more likely to catch/test the issues and whether the problem is with the DAW or device, they can more easily make the correction than try to work with the 3rd party as they have total control.

Native devices are usually more stable with any DAW.

I'm sure they want all VSTs to work though or they wouldn't get much sales if they closed their system, as most users are using 3rd party VSTS free, paid, old, and new that they want working.

Problem could be various things. Chances are we are using different machines, OS systems, unrelated programs in the background.
Last edited by jlgrimes on Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:14 am, edited 7 times in total.

jestermgee
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Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by jestermgee » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:02 am

SankoPro wrote: Also there are threads with people having issues with 3rd party plug-ins. Look in the forums. Do a little research next time before you start hating from the get. That's what fan boys do.
:lol:

Mate, i'm here every day reading up on everything. Of course some people have issues. Some people have all kinds of issues. Does not mean that there IS an issue for everyone. How you read I am "hating" on everything is a little bizzare. I just have no such issues, nor do many of the other experienced users around here outside of an occasional crash that occurs in any software. If it is an issue that is consistent for you, post the actual plugin and steps for someone else to test the exact same procedure. You mentioned Massive... But is that when you load it onto a track, when you save, when you open, all of the above???

What you don't appear to understand is there is a difference between just having a moan about something and trying to actually get to the bottom of the cause. If you are going to have this attitude when asked a few questions by someone that was willing to try and help, then good luck!

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:22 am

jlgrimes wrote:
SankoPro wrote:Just an honest question really. What i mean by this is that i have had multiple crashes on Live 10 from using 3rd party plug-ins... These plug-ins that CRASH ABLETON ARE NOT RANDOM PLUG-INS. I've tested this on multiple computers and laptops. Ones that have caused most crashes Are anything from Xfer Records, Native instruments including massive etc, DADA life, anything from Fabilter and so on. These either result in an instant crash or over time will make it unable to open your previous work. I have Done all types of trouble shooting, Such as Turning off the plugins and opening the project.... Which this does work.... seems to have been only a short term fix..... Then will result in Crashing Ableton with errors anytime you try opening a Project.

NOW to why my title is what it is... ONLY WHEN AND ONLY WHEN DO I DISABLE/TURN OFF ALL PLUG-INS DOES MY PROJECTS OPEN..... So i ask is this a scheme from ABleton so you only use their products and services over other 3rd parties?

Before you comment Do realize i've tested this on 4 computers that belong to me and 3 others from friends. These all have had similar results on all of them. Test have been done with different storage devices from M.2 to noraml ssd drives. From AMD cpu's like 1700/2700x to Intel 8700k, 8750h, 9900k.
From my conclusion it is a problem with the software not hardware. Also having contacted these companies(3rd party) and talking about the issue these companies were puzzled as to why their apps are having the issues. Even after sending them the information from my computers and detailed crash lists.

Also note this problem has not occurred until the launch of LIVE 10.0.5 and the 10.0.5b or whatever

Please if you have any other input or have had problems with your Live 10 please comment below. Thank you :?

I doubt it is a conspiracy but yes various plugins can and do crash Live. I get occasional crashes on my Mac. But Studio One occasionally crash as well. That said my crashes are somewhat rare. Rare enough it doesn't cause me issues. I use those same vendors as well and they all seem pretty stable on my machines and I perform live on a "Windows" laptop (performances where I get paid).

The least crash programs I have are Reason, Reaper, and Maschine but even those have faults.

Yes Native plugins are miles more stable but that is just because they are way more likely to catch/test the issues and whether the problem is with the DAW or device, they can more easily make the correction than try to work with the 3rd party as they have total control.

Native devices are usually more stable with any DAW.

I'm sure they want all VSTs to work though or they wouldn't get sales if they closed their system, as most users are using 3rd party VSTS free, paid, old, and new that they want working.

Problem could be various things. Chances are we are using different machines, OS systems, unrelated programs in the background.


See now that makes me go WTF lol. You perform live on windows and it seems to be problem free.. hmmmmm. Let me ask this. How many channels have you used at any given time on windows laptop? Also i know that would differ depending on your CPU/ram but I'm curious. Depending on your answer i may have you test something.
Also not really a conspiracy just seems like a lot of business as of recent are trying to cash grab as much as possible. For example FL studio never makes you upgrade they just update the one you already bought up to the newest version. In which Ableton gave me a discount since i bought LIVE 9 Suite.(so nice of them) To upgrade to Live 10. Which was still like $200-300 not even for the suite just to Standard 10.
WE also live a world of many micro transactions from games to apps so it wouldn't surprise me if companies like Ableton tried to make their competition less stable on their DAW so that way you would favor Their product more. Like i said its just speculation but after my tests it did make me raise the question...
This is a practice that many companies have used before.
Last edited by SankoPro on Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

SankoPro
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:29 pm

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by SankoPro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:28 am

jestermgee wrote:
SankoPro wrote: Also there are threads with people having issues with 3rd party plug-ins. Look in the forums. Do a little research next time before you start hating from the get. That's what fan boys do.
:lol:

Mate, i'm here every day reading up on everything. Of course some people have issues. Some people have all kinds of issues. Does not mean that there IS an issue for everyone. How you read I am "hating" on everything is a little bizzare. I just have no such issues, nor do many of the other experienced users around here outside of an occasional crash that occurs in any software. If it is an issue that is consistent for you, post the actual plugin and steps for someone else to test the exact same procedure. You mentioned Massive... But is that when you load it onto a track, when you save, when you open, all of the above???

What you don't appear to understand is there is a difference between just having a moan about something and trying to actually get to the bottom of the cause. If you are going to have this attitude when asked a few questions by someone that was willing to try and help, then good luck!



Thanks for your input. Good Day :D

fishmonkey
Posts: 4184
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Ableton trying to monopolize Plug-ins ? (READ)

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:10 am

SankoPro wrote:Just an honest question really.
i think you're on to something bro!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urglg3WimHA
badbrainz wrote: I'm a drummer, so I'm already at an intellectual disadvantage here

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