Live - Space Before File Name

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
8bitavenger
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm

Live - Space Before File Name

Post by 8bitavenger » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:54 pm

Hi,

I have Live 10 Suite and I'm running into a re-occurring conflict with OneDrive, which I use to automatically back up all of my important files, including project files in Live.

When I freeze/flatten/edit/consolidate audio, new files are made in certain folders in Live's sub-folders. Great, makes sense, love it. Sometimes these files have a space at the beginning. Example: "_freeze1234.wav", but put a space instead of the "_". OneDrive doesn't like files with a space at the beginning or en and refuses to back it up until the space is removed. If I copy the file to the same folder, the OneDrive issue is resolved as the pasted file automatically removes the space at the beginning of the new file's name. Unfortunately, if I then delete the old file with the space in it, Live doesn't see the new file nor will its auto-search find it.

Question #1: Why does Live make files with spaces at the beginning of the name? Is this a bug? Can we get it fixed? Is there something I can do to prevent it?
Question #2: If it's intended or can't/won't be fixed, does anyone have recommendations for quick work-arounds? It could be that I just don't understand the proper inputs for Hot-Swap mode or something, but when I swap the sample out, things like volume aren't saved so I don't know how to do this quickly/easily without negatively affecting my work.

Thanks in advance for any assistance offered,

wearemindflux
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by wearemindflux » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:22 pm

Hi, from what I know it is not good to run a session from a back up system like dropbox etc.

You are better working of your computer drive and then once your done, back the project in the drive.
Grab your free techno samples here>>>http://bit.ly/2YAS8so

filtersweep
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:28 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by filtersweep » Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:52 pm

i would never use/rely on the cloud - it's just for backup.
working files are strictly on local drives...

8bitavenger
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by 8bitavenger » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:03 am

Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm not saving directly to a cloud backup. I'm saving to a local drive and I've done some jiggering to make my cloud backup automatically find and upload those files.

Anyway, the issue is that Live is naming files with a space before the characters, something that's generally not allowed/advisable in Windows. Is anyone aware of this issue or does anyone have any advice for how to work around it until it's resolved by Ableton Devs?

wearemindflux
Posts: 315
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by wearemindflux » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:03 pm

It seems to just be on your system.
Grab your free techno samples here>>>http://bit.ly/2YAS8so

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5308
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by [jur] » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

8bitavenger wrote: Anyway, the issue is that Live is naming files with a space before the characters
Are you really sure that the machine is the culprit here? :wink:
Ableton Forum Moderator

fishmonkey
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by fishmonkey » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:40 pm

yep, self-inflicted wound.

if any of your samples or clips have spaces at the start of their names, Live will preserve those. it does not automatically add spaces.

8bitavenger
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by 8bitavenger » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:34 am

fishmonkey wrote:yep, self-inflicted wound.

if any of your samples or clips have spaces at the start of their names, Live will preserve those. it does not automatically add spaces.
So I have a current example of this happening from yesterday. I was designing a kick in Serum, froze the channel, flattened it, then messed with audio clip's fades, and eventually ctrl+z/un-did that flatten/freeze, messed with the kick in Serum some more, saved, and quit. The resulting files (from freeze/flattening) were called: " (Freeze) [2019-01-15 182103].wav" and " (Freeze) [2019-01-15 182103].wav.asd", both with spaces at the beginning. The track's name was "Other Synth" with no space at the beginning, and the clip at that time had no name.

So I just re-did the same exact action on the same channel in the same project, and lo and behold, when I froze and flattened it, found that the clip when flattened was automatically named " (Freeze)", with a space at the beginning. So what appears to be happening is that Live automatically names frozen clips "***** (Freeze)", where ***** is the original name of said clip. But since my clip didn't have a name, it just named it " (Freeze)", with a space in it.

So the work-around for me is clearly going to be to make sure to name my clips before freezing/flattening a channel, which I can just force myself to do. It'll be a bit annoying, but whatever, It's important to me to continue data management the way I am currently managing it. But the fact that Live's written in a way that many customers will end up with file names with spaces at the beginning of them, which isn't a good idea in general in Windows, should probably be changed for the future.

Before people flame me and say it's only a problem because I'm using OneDrive, I know that something like this can end up causing serious havok when things like data migrations are done later down the line, perhaps in a large automatic Windows Upgrade/Update, for example. There's a variety of situations that could come up because of the current naming convention that end up screwing over the standard user that they would not know how to identify/resolve before data loss is incurred.

Perhaps the "***** (Freeze)" naming convention could be changed to "*****-Freeze", "*****_freeze", "*****.freeze", "*****(Freeze)", or something similar. Or perhaps a special check could be made and if the clip being frozen doesn't currently have a name, the frozen clip's name would always be named "(Freeze)" precisely, rather than following the standard convention. This way, the intent behind the original naming convention would stay the same, but disallow the possibility of having files with spaces at the beginning.

Thanks for your help, everyone. Looks like I have a workaround solution for now and I'll take up my more long-term issue with the devs!

EDIT: Minor correction. The offending files were found in ...Live Recordings\Temp-6 Project\samples\processed\consolidate. So perhaps the action is a composite of both Live re-naming to "***** (Freeze)" during freezing, then while re-saving that file again during consolidation, Live not picking up/rectifying the fact that the un-named channel's frozen audio has a space at the beginning of the name. Could also be an issue that only arises in temp projects, haven't done enough work researching the issue to know. *shrug*

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5308
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by [jur] » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:43 am

Really, I've never heard about any thing like that. So where does this space comes from???
Ableton Forum Moderator

8bitavenger
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by 8bitavenger » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:42 am

[jur] wrote:Really, I've never heard about any thing like that. So where does this space comes from???
I'm assuming it's just an algorithm within the code. Something like (i'm not a programmer, but...): if freeze, rename clip: "clipname (freeze)". Then if consolidate, make files for "clipname" (which now has a space at the beginning from freezing if you didn't already name it): "clipname.wav" and "clipname.wav.asd" (and put them in specific folders, etc.) The space is introduced upon freezing, and then once consolidated as an audio clip, it's re-affirmed and turned into two files with those spaces if you didn't originally name the clip.

Also, clearly you should never post again, because Image 1234 posts. :P

fishmonkey
Posts: 4478
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:28 am

yep, i've just reproduced it here.

if you freeze a clip that doesn't have a name and then consolidate it, the consolidated filename starts with " (Freeze) ".

however, the space isn't introduced when you freeze, as the frozen audio filename starts with "Freeze ".

and if you consolidate a clip with no name, Live automatically uses the track name to name the clip.

i guess it's an edge-case that wasn't considered when the code was written...

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5308
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by [jur] » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:42 am

Hhmm, gonna have to try to reproduce.
1235, sorry.
Ableton Forum Moderator

BernieDake
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:05 am

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by BernieDake » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:39 pm

Hey guys, came across this thread looking for an answer as this is the same problem I have. I keep session files on my local drive but the folder is set to backup to OneDrive automatically. Whenever I freeze a clip without first naming the clip, Ableton automatically names it " (Freeze).aif" with a space before the file name. In my case it just triggers an error in OneDrive because it cannot sync a file with a space at beginning, but I would imagine this would be a problem in several other occasions whether on Windows or Mac. Surely this behavior wasn't written in the program this way on purpose.


Live 9 Standard
Mac OS 10.14.5

palmenas
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:50 pm

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by palmenas » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:52 pm

I have the same issue and it's very annoying. I have my working sets on a local drive that is auto backed up to OneDrive.
When I have a clip without name and I freeze the track, it will name it to " (Freeze)" and OneDrive is complaining.

[jur]
Site Admin
Posts: 5308
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Ableton

Re: Live - Space Before File Name

Post by [jur] » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:48 pm

palmenas wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:52 pm
I have the same issue and it's very annoying. I have my working sets on a local drive that is auto backed up to OneDrive.
When I have a clip without name and I freeze the track, it will name it to " (Freeze)" and OneDrive is complaining.
Which Live version are you running?
I think the bug was solved a few months ago (but I need to check).
Ableton Forum Moderator

Post Reply