Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Fanu
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by Fanu » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:18 pm

Sure there are no plugins (on tracks, returns, master) in your project causing latency?
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Mark Williams
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by Mark Williams » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:53 pm

daek wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:04 pm

I am afraid you are wrong and your argument doesn't make sense. Reaper out of the box with the exact same settings doesn't show any sign of latency. So please, don't answer if you don't know how to fix this issue. I need people who know and understand the issue.
I know and understand, but with your know it all attitude you wont get anywhere, keep moaning about it douche....
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[erm]
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by [erm] » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:10 pm

Please everyone, follow the community guidelines at the top of each forum and treat each other with respect if you're going to use our forums. Name calling is definitely not something we allow here.
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TLW
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by TLW » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:59 am

For whatever reason I lost track of this thread. My fault.

Now, I have done an exact duplicate of the Live settings in the post that started this discussion. New project, only thing loaded in it being Keyzone Classic. Live reports that plugin has zero "built in" latency for what that's worth.

Computer is a MacBook Pro Retina, 2.2GHz i7, Intel graphics. Audio interface is an RME UFX using the latest RME driver.

48KHz sample rate, 512MS buffer.

Live reports:
input latency = 11.7ms
output latency = 12.8ms
total round trip = 24.4ms.
Entering 64ms into driver error compensation takes the round trip to 25.8ms (I usually have driver error compensation set to 0).
I find that much latency a bit of a problem for playing software instruments and hopeless when recording audio into Live and monitoring it through Live (which is how I usually work so I can e.g. add delays in the box and hear what they're doing). The latency is about how I'd expect, VST response a little delayed but almost acceptable - it's the output latency which has the biggest influence on playing VSTs.

So let's set up the audio prefs as I usually have them when recording.
Sample rate 48KHz, buffer = 64ms. Driver error compensation 0.
input latency = 2.35ms
output latency = 3.42ms
total round trip = 7.08ms
Which for me at least amounts to zero noticeable latency. It's about the same time delay between playing a note and hearing it as a guitarist gets with his/her ears about 7 feet from their amp's speaker.

So I, at least, can get low latency in Live. I have in the past had similar results in Cubase and Sonar, and I get the same results in Logic. RME's drivers and hardware are among the very best for latency, but when using Edirol and Focusrite interfaces I've certainly managed at worst between 128 and 256 samples without problems on both PCs and Macs for many years.

The cause of latency in DAWs is not an entirely straightforward thing, poor latency performance can be caused by a lot of things. It might even be that Reaper gets on better with Audient drivers than Live does (though that Reaper reported latency of 27ms I'd find a real problem).

But nevertheless saying Live is incapable of low latency performance is simply wrong.

There are suggestions in this thread and others that might help fix a latency issue, have those with latency issues tried them?
Live 10 Suite, 2014/15 MacBook Pro 15.3” Retina i7, OS Mojave 10.14.5. RME UFX, assorted synths, guitars and stuff.

doghouse
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by doghouse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:19 am

Latency is always due to the audio interface and related drivers.

Like TLW, I use a 64 sample buffer setting and get very low latency with both Live and Logic. I'm using an iMac, quad i5, it's about 6 years old so not super fast. Previous to the iMac I used a MacBook Pro from 2009, with only a Core 2 Duo and it also ran Live at a 64 sample buffer setting.

I would contact Audient support.

Jeremydnurse
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by Jeremydnurse » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi I was having the same problem. I find a solution by methodically deleting each plugin until I found one that was causing the problem. I deleted it and it was fixed.

daek
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by daek » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:27 am

Mark Williams wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:53 pm
daek wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:04 pm

I am afraid you are wrong and your argument doesn't make sense. Reaper out of the box with the exact same settings doesn't show any sign of latency. So please, don't answer if you don't know how to fix this issue. I need people who know and understand the issue.
I know and understand, but with your know it all attitude you won't get anywhere, keep moaning about it douche....
thank you, bye now.

U.G.U.R
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:05 am

Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by U.G.U.R » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:57 am

Hey guys!! I have an important problem.

I have problems about audio glitch and cpu overload in ableton 9.

My computer has LENOVO IDEAPAD 320 CORE İ5 8250U 1.6GHZ-12GB RAM, and ı sometimes used ROland MX-1 as a audio interface. But when ı got 15-20 tracks in my project, glitches and cpu overload started.
On the middle of my project, ı had to stop about this. I actually tried too many things;
I bought a 480 gb ssd harddrive and ı just setup ableton and its vst's inside. Sometimes i changed usb slot but i didnt work. Because of all thing ı said; ı couldnt finish a project for a long time. I am getting crazy 8O

If you guys have a idea or advice, ı waiting here. Please tell me smthg.

See you and thank you.
UGR

daek
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by daek » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 pm

I HAVE FOUND THE SOLUTION!!!!!!

First of all, thank you to all who tried to help out but none of the proposed solutions worked.
Before I share the solution. I would like for those interested to recap the issue:
I was experiencing an unacceptable latency which made playing with my MIDI keyboard impossible.
Most proposed solutions suggested reducing the buffer size and making sure Driver Error Compensation is at 0.0ms.
This didn't work for me.
So, with the original settings:
- Sample Rate (In/Out): 48,000
- Buffer Size: 512 Samples
- Input Latency: 15.2ms
- Output Latency: 12.5ms
- Driver Error Compensation: 0smp or 0.0ms
- Overall Latency: 27.7ms

I discovered that, by default or on a default Ableton Live installation, the "Delay Compensation" option is turned on. This option is not located in the Preferences Dialogue (Dear ABLETON, please move this option in the Preferences Dialogue).
When this option is ON, Latency is perceivable, when OFF, no latency.

This option in located in the main Menu>Options>Delay Compensation. Turn this option off, and enjoy. I hope that helps some of you!

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fishmonkey
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 am

it's always curious when someone who clearly doesn't understand what they are doing berates others who clearly do.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... on-in-Live
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rithma
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by rithma » Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:44 pm

hey @daek THANK YOU for posting this and staying on it and reporting your solutions. I have been hitting a wall with this stupid midi delay for awhile now, basically throwing my hands up and considering moving back to Logic after all these years since... no latency there!
But I've spent the last 3 years learning abes, and I love it, and that stupid options-> "delay compensation" check box must have gotten turned on during an update or by accident because ableton was basically unplayable recently. I've been playing notes in and manually moving them over with the mouse. That's No Good!!!!!!!!
Hopefully this does the trick.
thanks again
www.rithma.org/blog

login
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by login » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:06 pm

Latency is a direct result of buffer size, no way around that. If you are good now at 512 buffer size it is good for you but for many the latency at that buffer size is still quite noticeable.

You have a powerful CPU, so if you get pops and crackles when you lower the buffer size the main source of this bad performance is going to be the audio interface drivers. It is common knowledge this drivers are the achiles heel of audio on windows, most brands don't have good enough drivers but there are two manufacturers that have above average performance (considering only USB interfaces): Steinberg and RME, with both i can get to buffer size of 128 without problems and RME can go down to 32 in small projects.


Supposedly thunderbolt interfaces have very good performance (since TB works quite different to USB) but I haven't tried one.

jlgrimes
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by jlgrimes » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:50 pm

daek wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:27 am
Hello, fellow Abletonados!

First, I understand this subject was covered on multiple other threads. However, none of the proposed solutions fixed my problem.

I am using Ableton 10 and I also sometimes use Reaper. Sometimes, I want to merely compose a piano/synth track using any of my plugins. To my surprise, out of the box Ableton 10 has a latency that makes it unusable. It is not the case in Reaper. In Reaper, I have no (or unperceivable) latency with the same Audio interface (Audient). It is quite disappointing.

How to do the test:
- ASIO Drivers (Buffer Size 512 smp, 48KHz)
- One Midi track and no effects
- One Plugin ([FREE] Bitsonic KeyZone Classic, to test on both app)
- Windows 10

1. In Live 10:
- Sample Rate (In/Out): 48,000
- Buffer Size: 512 Samples
- Input Latency: 15.2ms
- Output Latency: 12.5ms
- Driver Error Compensation: 64smp or 1.33ms
- Overall Latency: 29.0ms

2. In Reaper 5.9
- Sample Rate: 48,000
- Media Buffer Size: 1200ms
- Use audio driver reported latency option: ON

Thank you for your help
512 buffers is the culprit.

A setting of 128 should be usable.

As a ballpark, getting your output latency under 10 ms or so should make the latency undetectable.

jamesmello
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Re: Ableton Live 10 Suite: Midi Keyboard and Latency

Post by jamesmello » Mon May 18, 2020 4:24 am

What completely fixed latency for me in this 1 project was:
While in Live 10 go to: "Options" > go down to "Reduced Latency When Monitoring" and make sure it is checked.

Yup, I felt like a real dum dum. I completely forgot about this option. I read it waaay back in day for the Live 9 (I have Live 10) walkthrough/manual too. This is the video that reminded me, good video too: https://youtu.be/Iz8Zs18inE4

It's always that ONE thing that isn't checked. I even loaded up other sessions that had very little latency and couldn't figure out why this one specific project had such crazy latency. I even tried everything in the below links and nothing worked. That being said - the below links are great rules of thumb for all projects.

Additional helpful links and info:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ce-latency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfrhvbvW17A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLkzG2XSGow

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