"Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Skullrattler
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"Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Skullrattler » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:36 pm

Hi all.
In the clip editor there is this behaviour:
Note movements will also snap to an “offset,” which is based on the original placement of the note relative to the grid. This is useful for preserving a groove or loose playing style that you do not necessarily want to “set straight.”
I find this behaviour extremely disruptive to the way I want to work and would very much like to disable any and all offset snapping when "snap to grid" is enabled... Is there a way??

Cheers

Explanation: I usually want to quickly snap notes to the grid when I open the clip editor, not spend any time fiddling with the mouse to preserve fine nuances. When nuance and off-grid timing is required, if live played notes are not right they are deleted and another take is done, otherwise notes are nudged with snap-to-grid turned off.
When zoomed out of a clip, it is impossible to tell if a note you have moved has actually snapped to the grid and not to some offset that Live thinks should be there :roll: This ends up taking up time and diverting attention to micro-managament that I don't care about, disrupting creative flow... Quantizing a live played clip does not always produce the results I'm looking for, hence the need to manually snap certain notes to a particular grid...

Airfixx
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Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Airfixx » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:58 pm

Bumped cos "me too". :)

...Only noticed this the other day myself. Surely this is a on/off-able function...?

jlgrimes
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Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by jlgrimes » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:45 pm

Skullrattler wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:36 pm
Hi all.
In the clip editor there is this behaviour:
Note movements will also snap to an “offset,” which is based on the original placement of the note relative to the grid. This is useful for preserving a groove or loose playing style that you do not necessarily want to “set straight.”
I find this behaviour extremely disruptive to the way I want to work and would very much like to disable any and all offset snapping when "snap to grid" is enabled... Is there a way??

Cheers

Explanation: I usually want to quickly snap notes to the grid when I open the clip editor, not spend any time fiddling with the mouse to preserve fine nuances. When nuance and off-grid timing is required, if live played notes are not right they are deleted and another take is done, otherwise notes are nudged with snap-to-grid turned off.
When zoomed out of a clip, it is impossible to tell if a note you have moved has actually snapped to the grid and not to some offset that Live thinks should be there :roll: This ends up taking up time and diverting attention to micro-managament that I don't care about, disrupting creative flow... Quantizing a live played clip does not always produce the results I'm looking for, hence the need to manually snap certain notes to a particular grid...
I don't think there is a way to disable it.

That said it generally works pretty well once you get the hang of it (better than other magnetic implementations I've seen). You can somewhat get around it using the arrow keys to nudge notes by the grid and Cmd D to duplicate notes.

But yeah not all of us are trying to do acid jazz. Sometimes you just want a locked grid. It would be nice if we could disable it and go to the pre version 9 way of doing it which utilized hard snapping with a key modifier to temporarily disable it.

Angstrom
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Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:15 pm

Yeah. I've never liked the "smart snap" and I complained out the lack of a basic "Snap" option bitterly when sloppy snap was introduced. Abletons response was "just tell us why it doesnt work and we'll tweak it until those edge cases are addressed ". My point was that music is generally on time, and so providing an on-time option is not unreasonable. Also that every DAW which offers auto-snap also offers a plain old "snap". But ableton wanted to be all Garage Band about it and remove options at the expense of usability.

Deleting capabilities is not how to deliver "elegant simple intuitive UI". it is not an elegant solution to only offer automatic doors, there are valid cases where a manual door is optimal. These cannot be addressed by tweaking the automatic door.
We can have automatic doors AND manual doors, and this is the best solution.

Currently I always drag a note over a grid lne and then back. If I want an off-grid note I still use the modifier key as I did with all previous versions of Live. I try to ignore sloppy snap as much as possible. The only time I engage with it is when it has put one of my notes off time because my grid was too coarse.

Skullrattler
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Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:57 pm

Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Skullrattler » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:30 pm

Angstrom wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:15 pm
Yeah. I've never liked the "smart snap" and I complained out the lack of a basic "Snap" option bitterly when sloppy snap was introduced. Abletons response was "just tell us why it doesnt work and we'll tweak it until those edge cases are addressed ". My point was that music is generally on time, and so providing an on-time option is not unreasonable. Also that every DAW which offers auto-snap also offers a plain old "snap". But ableton wanted to be all Garage Band about it and remove options at the expense of usability.

Deleting capabilities is not how to deliver "elegant simple intuitive UI". it is not an elegant solution to only offer automatic doors, there are valid cases where a manual door is optimal. These cannot be addressed by tweaking the automatic door.
We can have automatic doors AND manual doors, and this is the best solution.
Thanks or your comment, I totally agree.

They really have lost their head in "look at all the clever things we can do" and wallowing in feature creep. Ableton's GUI is a looooong way from "elegant" if you're used to Mac OS. It reminds me of clunky freeware apps made with Java.
"just tell us why it doesnt work and we'll tweak it until those edge cases are addressed "
seriously????? WTF. "

PUT AN OPTION IN THE PREFERENCES FFS! :evil:

This is the last in a long series of fails that have made me despise this software and regret all the money and time I have invested in it.

Moving on to Bitwig....

Angstrom
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Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:13 pm

I thought I felt strongly about this issue, but it turns out I'm at registering only 2 out of of an available rage scale of 10.

:wink:

Tarekith
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Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Tarekith » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:23 pm

That is quite the strong emotion for something like snapping. :D

Angstrom
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Re: "Snap to grid" does not in fact always snap to grid.. Can I force it to?

Post by Angstrom » Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:19 am

I thought I was on like ... a level 9 of annoyance about it, or at least 8.5
But nope. Turns out, the scale goes way higher.
I'm gonna put some effort in over the weekend to see if I can become more annoyed about it.

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